Transcript

The All Gifts Podcast. Season 2. Episode 10: What is the Point of Forgiveness?

SPEAKERS

Pandora Villasenor, Chantel Deniese

Pandora Villasenor 00:00

This episode of The All Gifts Podcast artists influencer wife and mother Chantel Deniese joins me to discuss how unforgiveness blocks wholeness in our lives. But how forgiveness unlocks deeper levels of healing, creativity and freedom. Listen as we share what we do when we get offended, how to comfort our younger selves, and what tools we use to get to a place of forgiveness.

Chantel 00:26

There are times where I have not felt like I'm this forgiving light at times, so it's a continued process, but this art part of it makes me feel good makes me feel proud. It's purpose, right?

Pandora Villasenor 00:41

It is your purpose behind your pain.

Chantel 00:44

It's, I love that, that you could coin that girl.

Pandora Villasenor 00:49

I will, I'll coin it.

Pandora Villasenor

You are listening to The All Gifts Podcast, where we unwrap some of life's most painful topics to find the hidden gift within. I coach people helping them discover ways to transform their challenges into gifts. I'm your host and author of The All Gifts memoir, Pandora Villasenor. You are listening to The All Gifts Podcast. Thank you for joining me for this exciting conversation with my friend Chantel Deniese Chantel Say hi to our listeners.

Chantel 01:33

Hello, everybody.

Pandora Villasenor 01:35

Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Chantel 01:37

So um, I am a woman who, who does many things. But I will tell you the most amazing things that I do do is that I get to be a wife to a wonderful man named John and I have two beautiful daughters, Daphne and Melody. So that is kind of like my everyday thing that I do that I love at times, and sometimes I don't. But I'm very grateful, because they helped me to be a better person every single day.

Pandora Villasenor 02:13

How old are they?

Chantel 02:15

Daphne will be 16 this week. Wow. And Melody will be she's turning 11 next month. So um, but in essence to beyond that I am a woman who is an artist, I'm a singer, actress and a writer. And that actually gives me a another part of my life where I'm actually to go beyond just being a mom and a wife. But that I have something specifically that I do for myself.

Pandora Villasenor 02:45

I love that. And specifically, what we're going to talk about today is the gift of forgiveness, which I think probably you have a lot to share about that goes into your passion behind a lot of these things that you do for yourself. And, and I think what we can do is we can start to dig into how forgiveness, even when things are really, really challenging can be these this release in our lives. So I want to get right into that topic. And as we share about that topic, I'd love to hear I'm sure the listeners would love to hear again about how this has been a gift in your life and informs all these areas of your life, whether it's being a wife, or a mother or an artist, a singer and actress all the things that you do. So while we're on the topic, tell us a little bit more about why you wanted to talk about this particular challenge when I invited you to be a guest on the podcast.

Chantel 03:46

Thank you Pandora I am you know, forgiveness is a journey that I have been on for the time I can remember at least from I think about nine years old, where I started to have challenges in my life. And I think when I became an adult, probably around, I would say about 20 to 23 I started to realize that I had this area of my life in my life where I had to learn how to forgive. And it's I will tell you this, it's been the most hardest part of my journey in life. When I was about nine years old, and I'm just going to share the story with you. From about nine to 11 years old, I was actually molested. And this part this time in my life I, I was a kid before that who had a lot of life who smiled all the time, who was very happy about everything. And I think between nine and 11 years old was when I developed a silence and actually was interesting because I wrote a song about it called silent lady. And how we stopped speaking, when we go through, you know, our voice gets diminished when we go through hard times. And so to share that with you, it grew up in my adult life, this this nine, through 11 year old girl grew up in my adult life. And I found myself, every situation from about 21 year old, on down, until I discovered what forgiveness looks like. I found myself really on a journey of guarding my heart, protecting myself from relationships, walking out on relationships, and this is kind of what we're what unforgiveness looks like. We're very quick to dismiss people out of my life. Even if it was a hurt feeling, it was very easy for me. So to say you, you got to go, there's an exit door leave, and you cannot come back in. And so for a long time, I've built relationships. That way. I'm very open to possibly like new discoveries and relationships, but not open to the point where it was tough when you hurt me. And so I spent a long time doing that. And then I think probably around 24 or 25 years old, I started to evaluate my own life, I started to look at what is this that keeps me from connecting with people on a deeper level. And I realized it was from my childhood. Well, it was from the pain of that time. And that's just one incident. There are several stories I can tell you. But this one, I will say shake a lot of my life. It's shaped where I was headed. And it shaped who I would allow myself to come in contact with in the future. It was very, very difficult when I really discovered that there was some holes in my life. And there was a part of me, that was broken, actually. And I realized, I became a Christian around that time, and changed my life and started to look through life from a different lens. And I will tell you this, when I started learning about God, and really getting into the Bible, and really seeing the life of someone else other than mine, and seeing the pain of Jesus Christ, I can't tell you how much I registered with that in a sense of pain, not so much as my circumstance is not even close to that. But I did not want to diminish my pain, either. I wanted to connect with pain. And I will tell you that that journey of really learning who God is, and Eve, and I'll say this, I grew up in church, but I didn't really know God in this way. So this journey of really discovering who he is really, I connect it to the aspect of pain. And it helped me to really starting to look beyond myself to see how can I deal with this and wholeness? How can I deal with this incompleteness. And I will tell you this pain there, if it's taken me even though around that time that was in the 90s it has taken me up to like, probably 2000, I would say 14 or 15 when I really discovered oh my gosh, I understood pain when I learned about God and discovered Jesus. But I did not really deal with that pain. I just discovered it. I never dealt with it. And so you got all of these years of being on the journey of discovering and having a different mindset. But I never really personally felt healed.

Pandora Villasenor 09:09

Okay. And it's you know, it's Yes, it's something you know, when we first get to church, when you if you've gotten to that place where you get to experience true Christianity, like studying the Bible, and really understanding the cross and what you know Jesus has done for us and you choose to live to emulate him. But there's still so much healing I share about this on almost every episode about how, you know, I keep going with God on this walk through deeper and deeper layers of healing. Can I ask you a question about unforgiveness? One of the things and I'm not a therapist, All Gifts podcast is not about you know, being an expert. It's just about sharing our stories in the hopes that other people can relate and be and help them to see their challenges as gifts or how to transform our challenges into gifts. One of the things that I have observed in my own heart, and I wonder if this if you if this resonates with you, Chantel is when, when I have unforgiveness for somebody, it cuts off my heart towards that person. But it also just cuts off my heart, like a piece of my heart so that it doesn't just, it's not like we can just cut off our heart for that one person, it ends up affecting other relationships and other opportunities for relationship does that resonate with you? Or do you know what I'm saying? Have you experienced that?

Chantel 10:36

Oh, yes, absolutely. I, I do believe what you're sharing. You mentioned something about layers, how we're discovering these layers in our life. And I definitely, definitely can relate to that. I think that unforgiveness does, it's almost like it's, it actually hinders the growth that you have to move where you're trying to go the growth area of where you're trying to move forward. It's, it's almost like it stops you. And I definitely felt I was growing in age, but I wasn't growing in maturity and character. And, um, and my mindset, actually. And so I felt daunted I felt, you know, in these different relationships that I was experiencing, I'm like, why am I not really connecting with this? Because this person has been in my life, or in my circle around me for a long time. But why do I not feel them? Like what why do I not want to fully embrace them? And that's where that unforgiveness that you were talking about? If you have it with one person, it leaks over into another relationship?

Pandora Villasenor 11:49

Yeah, it's almost like a, like an infection of the heart. It just blends it. And it just, it just hardens, it seems like, so how did you make it sounds like you got to a place of awareness like, whoa, there's some areas of deeper healing needed here. Oh, I think it's unforgiveness. And then when you made that connection, and you had that awareness, then what did you do?

Chantel 12:14

So, for me, and I know you mentioned about, you know, and I love that the podcast is not about, like, oh, we're trying to “therapirize” you.

Pandora Villasenor 12:24

We ain't got it like that.

Chantel 12:28

I had to go get therapy, honey.

Pandora Villasenor 12:31

Mm hmm. Same here.

Chantel 12:36

Um, so I, I'm a fan of it. Now, I was not always a fan of therapy. I thought therapy were for weak people. People who I had a really messed up view and concept of it, I thought it was for people just they were at the lowest and lowest and they had nowhere else to go. And, and I'm just being candid and honest, I was so messed up in my thought process on what therapy was all about. I was uneducated, of what it really does, number one, and then you know, me being that I had, had discovered God and built a relationship with him. I thought, you know, I'm, I should be able to only just tap into God on this one, you know, I don't need to tap into what Susie Q says she can do for me. I don't need this person telling me all their opinions and their advice. I'm pretty good with me and God. And I will tell you with that mindset. Now, there's a good and bad with that. The good thing is that I am a firm believer that I that He's my source and I rely there first. The challenge with that that is crippling to because God uses a lot of people use a staple. And you know, when you go through your Bible, you see so many people being used different men and with from women. So I had to learn how to open myself up to the not put God in a box. Yes. And that he obviously gave these people their their abilities and gifts to help other people.

Pandora Villasenor 14:13

That's great.

Chantel 14:15

So I decided to go to therapy. And I went for about a year. And actually before that I had tried it before that and it just even though the lady was good. It just didn't work out for me. And since I wasn't there and ready for it really. And so I couldn't connect and grasp the things that God wanted me to grasp at that time in my life. But the second time around. I discovered so much because I believe what happened for me is that I started to embrace healing. Yeah, I started to embrace I remember her doing an exercise with me Why? She literally took me to the nine year old girl and she says I'm going to take you and I'd love to share this Because it was so life changing for me, she said, I want to take this nine year old little girl. And we're going to walk her into this adult girl, because they need to hold hands.

Pandora Villasenor 15:11

Wow. Okay.

Chantel 15:12

And I was like, I had never thought of it that way. But when I visualize them holding hands, I broke in tears. Because for so long, Pandora, they had never held hands. Well, it was almost like this big girl moved to. Because I'm from Houston, Texas, I moved to California, and I left that little girl in Houston. Because she did not need to come with me because I didn't, I wasn't ready to have her come along. And it wasn't until therapy that I actually brought her along. Yes, she's a part of my life. She's a part of my story. Though, God, it was like, I could feel the healing in the chair.

Pandora Villasenor 16:00

Wow.

Chantel 16:01

I was like…

Pandora Villasenor 16:03

That's everything, I just want to share really quick that I think that is so powerful. And the other day I had this situation, and I'm so sorry to change the subject, but I think it fits here really quick. And then we can go back. But I had the situation the other day where I was left out of something and I wasn't invited. And I was so hurt. And then, but I didn't want to be hurt because I wanted to kind of understand or explain away why the person didn't invite me, you know, that kind of situation. And while I was processing it and trying to stop myself from crying, I realized in that moment, I totally think this is God because He just you know, I think He's that inner voice inside when you're alone. And you get those those good thoughts. I got this thought that said, “It's the younger you. It's the younger you let her be sad. She feels left out. This is the young you comfort her.” And I felt this need to comfort my younger self. And I have never thought that way before. And I've been through therapy, but my therapist didn't use that technique. But that came to me just the other day. Isn't that interesting? And that you would share that story? And it just reminds me of that inner voice that said that to me the other day.

Chantel 17:18

Wow. Yeah, that is like that's priceless. Right there. Yeah. I mean, it's totally like, you know, God used that moment. And even me sharing what I'm sharing. He's always connecting us.

Pandora Villasenor 17:32

Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. That's what I love talking about. You are talking about you talk to you with you. I love it. Okay, going back to your story. You went through therapy she did. I assumed as a she I don't know why I said that. But the therapist put you through some exercises, some tools gave you some some great opportunity to see and go back and heal and love on your younger self. Tell me what uh, now I'm really curious about this concept. Since I just shared this story of mine. Is this something that you have used? Again? Is this a tool you pull out at times when you are struggling with something that hurts you or offends you? Or triggers you in any way? Do you bring up that little you that younger you?

Chantel 18:23

You know, sometimes, I think that I'm I probably don't pull her up a lot, because I do actually feel the healing, the healing that has happened, that they're actually these girls are connected. And so in a system, I don't actually have to go back into her, okay, because the so part of me now. And so what it has done, I will tell you this, because these girls are integrated, what it has done, it's allowed me to really express my emotions better. And it is allowed me to be vulnerable with my kid, like, when we get when we have our differences. I can I will, I will, I will share things with her. You know, when I was a little girl, this this was said to me. So it's hard when you say that, you know. And so in those moments in those instances, she does come up also with my husband, when we're talking about like, Oh, well, you know, I didn't feel appreciated when that happened on when you said that because you know when I was this girl here when I was this age, that that kind of stuff happened all the time. It's no like, Yes, she's a reflection while refer to her. But I do really feel that they're integrated. And I can live in the moment of this adult Chantel who has the some better ways to handle life because she's actually healed in this field in this particular area. So that I would say probably is the most of how I go back and forth with her. I will say this, I did write a story, because I'm a writer. And so my story has become very important for me to share with the world. So I've done. I've done two little stories. I have a short film that talks about my my life, and it deals with that little girl. And I also did this forgotten story for an organization that was doing a cut contest. And actually, I'd like to say, by the way, I just found out yesterday that I won.

Pandora Villasenor 20:36

Oh, congratulations. That's exciting.

Chantel 20:41

Thank you so much. But that story, that scene that I put into that contest, it went from a place of me being an adult girl, reflecting on my younger girl.

Pandora Villasenor 20:53

Now, isn't this interesting, you've taken a past experience that traumatized you, that tempted you into unforgiveness that you had to go through healing, and you had to face your pain. And one of the ways that it's transformed into a gift is forgiveness. And another way is, by working through this, you've learned better ways to communicate, when people hurt you, you've learned better tools and techniques for forgiving others, but you also have been able to transform it into art.

Chantel 21:28

Yeah,

Pandora Villasenor 21:29

I mean, that right, there is so special. Wow, that is. So tell me about a little bit about the artistic process and how this particular part of your life has shown up. Because obviously, you made a film, and it's won awards, or contests. So there's something in your artistic process that you've been able to transform your previous trauma into, into an expression, can you share a little bit about your process, like what you do to, to bring that?

Chantel 22:03

Wow, thank you for, for asking that. You know what you you were talking earlier about layers, I think art is my other layer of healing. So me taking the chance to write this story. For two reasons. One is because, you know, I wanted to share this story, and impact and help other people because I know that I'm not the only one. So I'm not unique in my story. I know that there are other people who have experienced what I've experienced. So I wrote from that perspective of I'm going to, I'm going to share with the world my story. Because I do believe that other people can identify their journey may be a little different. But I do believe people there are many people who have been abused. And so I wanted to offer my journey on how I actually experienced it, and how I dealt with it, and how I'm continuing to deal with it today. So that was the first place of writing the story. And the second place is that I am an actor. So I wasn't going to wait for anyone to write a story for me, right? Because I believe that we as individuals have stories that other people need to hear. And I believe that's for everybody. And so that was part of the I say the process of me doing this and I will say this, since I've taken it and written it down and put it on paper and put it on a screen. It's beautiful to watch and I feel very invigorated like God, you use my story to heal me, hmm. And it's also going to go beyond me. There's a scripture that I love Psalm 34:18, which talks about the Lord is close to the brokenhearted. Yes, he says, “Those who are crushed in spirit.” My spirit was crushed when that happened, and it stayed for a long time, but God was close to me. I was brokenhearted, but he saved me. And so I have to remember that in the journey that I am still here and I'm still breathing. My life means something. It's supposed to go on beyond me. I have a legacy to leave for my girls and don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to go Oh, I got to be perfect and get this all together in order. There are times where I have not felt like I'm this forgiving light at times, so it's continued process, but this art part of it makes me feel good makes me feel proud of its purpose. Right. It is your purpose behind your pain. I love that that you could coin that girl.

Pandora Villasenor 25:04

I will. I'll coin it for All Gifts. I'll say, pain, purpose in your pain.

Chantel 25:11

That's good. If that's true, then art has given me a purpose. Yeah.

Pandora Villasenor 25:17

What would you say to anybody listening right now that here's your story and thinks, wow, I, I was abused, I had traumatic things happen to me. Maybe it wasn't sexual abuse, maybe it was physical abuse, maybe it was domestic violence. Maybe it was emotional abuse. There's many, many traumatic things that have happened to far too many people actually, the more I talk to people, what would you say to someone who hears your story, and they're listening right now? And they're thinking, I know, I have unforgiveness, this resonates with me, I know it, and I don't know what to do. Next. I don't know what to do about it. Is there any, anything you would leave them with? What advice would you give them? And again, I know you're not a therapist, but just as a person who's lived through these experiences, and come out the other side and transformed it into not just gifts relationally. But even artistically, what would you share with that person, if you could just bring them in and speak to them?

Chantel 26:18

Well, you know, I think when you think about forgiveness, and, and what it actually means, like being able to let go of something being able to surrender the pain. Um, it's, it's that in itself, it's powerful. But I always I'm looking at, like, for me, forgiveness fueled my faith. And so I would say to someone else, that's out there, and you they may not have, you know, they may not be thinking of from a lens of God, and faith and all of that stuff. But I will, I will say this forgiveness is like… it unlocks. And so if you can find your way of whatever tools you can grab at, to go, I'm going to persevere through my pain. And I'm going to seek because it's really you have to seek it, it has to be intentional, because it doesn't come easy. So it has to be an intentional thing, that each person is willing to go on this journey to find out how they can overcome this to persevere beyond their pain, so that they can actually have freedom, because I believe forgiveness breeds freedom.

Pandora Villasenor 27:43

Yeah, I agree. I agree. It's a gift we give ourselves, we think we're giving it to the other person. Quick story, I went through this when my father passed away in 2008, I had been, you know, a Christian for about a year at that point, I had been to therapy, I so I did it in the reverse. I went to therapy first. And I do think therapy helped prepare me to be the kind of person that would even be open to God and all that he wanted to do with me relationally. But anyway, I've been through therapy. But I had unforgiveness for my dad, he'd been mostly missing in action. Being a heroin addict, and a Vietnam vet, he just had so many issues while I was growing up. So he just, he just disappointed and disappointed me and broke my heart a lot. Until it culminated in him going to prison for a big chunk of my childhood. So like, from, like, maybe 10 years old, until then he came back for a while when I was like, 15. And then he went back to the joint again. And then he got, you know, he would get in and out. And then even when he was out of jail, or prison, or the VA hospital, if that was where he was, he would go through periods of time where he would just go, you know, just radio silent, and just refuse to talk to anybody. And just, you know, and I know, he had issues, mental issues and things like that. But I was a kid who wanted my dad to be normal, you know, that feeling? Like, why can't you just be normal. And I had witnessed a lot of trauma, like a lot of violence between him and my mom. And then there were things that he did to with me that were just, you know, not sexual abuse, but just inappropriate stuff that I just shouldn't have seen or heard or had to deal with. So, by the time, you know, I was, like, you know, 30, I had been through therapy in my 20s. And so I kind of just sort of, you know, I forgave them partially, but I didn't really, really forgive them. And then when I learned about, you know, when I committed to become a Christian, I learned about forgiveness and how I had been forgiven by God. So that so you know, of course, there's many scriptures that convicted me that said, Hey, like, you've been forgiven for a lot. So you need to forgive and so I was Pretty convicted that I needed to forgive him. So, but only been a Christian for a few months when I decided, Okay, I'm gonna call him and it had been two years. But he had gone missing in action again, MIA as I used to call it. And so I didn't know if he would really pick up the phone or take my call, but he did and, and then I realized he was sick. And then I quickly realized he was dying. And so very, very quickly, I had to realize that I had a lot of hurt feelings still. But what I got from that experience was forgiveness was an action. It wasn't a feeling. So I acted in forgiveness at the time. In other words, I found out he was sick, I flew to Ohio, I went to his bedside, I, I showed him love, I read him scriptures. I talked to him about God, I talked to I and I told him, I forgave him, I went through all of those things, even though my heart still felt pain. And, and then, after I did that, and, and, you know, kind of left the hospital, I realized something, I realized that I had peace that I had never experienced before. And it's in that moment that I realized that by just going through the action of showing mercy to him in the hospital, I was forgiving in and it wasn't, it didn't necessarily mean that all of a sudden, you know, because I had a viewpoint that forgiveness would mean now I feel nothing but positive feelings about someone, or about something that happened with that person. But that's not what it is. It's actually its mercy, and it's love. And it's it's showing kindness to somebody who really doesn't deserve it. And, and then, the feelings followed my feet, I felt better about him. And I felt at peace. And to this day, I feel a lot of peace about my dad. And actually, I feel fully peaceful about him. He passed soon after that, and I have had no regrets because I had that chance to go there and just show him that mercy and that love even though at that time, I was still in a lot of pain. So I think forgiveness, that's where I got that from back then I thought, wow, forgiveness is an action. And forgiveness is a gift that you're actually giving yourself. Mm hmm. You think you're giving it to the other person, but you get the gift of peace that transcends all understanding, as it says in Philippians, you know, so? Yeah.

Chantel 32:48

That is cool. That's a great story.

Pandora Villasenor 32:51

Yeah. It's my book. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And, you know, along the lines of artists artistic endeavors in forgiveness. When I wrote the All Gifts book, I was literally going through my life at the time, scene by scene, the most traumatic things that have happened to me, and really created an entire book out of it. But while I was doing it and writing it, I decided I would write it from the standpoint of the age that I was in at the time, which artistically, I had to step into my past into these scenes. And like you were sharing earlier, it was such a cathartic experience. Because as I'm reliving these moments, I got to forgive myself, I got to forgive the other people, I got to see things in ways I've never seen before. But I got to see them through the eyes. It was like I was almost transported back. Because, you know, when you're writing a book, you want to write the scene, you want to write the feelings and the thoughts and all the things and so I would literally pray before I would write and I would be transported back in time. And so I relived all of those scenes. So it was a very powerful experience for me. And when I finished All Gifts, this past July, it felt like, I felt so light, like this burden had been lifted, I went to new levels of forgiveness and new levels of healing. So I know that unforgiveness is like you said, when you're Unforgiven, when you actually choose to forgive, whether it's through actions or feelings through therapy or whatever tool, you unlock some good stuff. Right, you unlock love, and you unlock mercy and do on lock blessing and creative. Yeah, creativity, all of those things. It's amazing.

Chantel 34:55

Yeah, maybe, you know…

Pandora Villasenor 34:57

That's what I want the listeners to hear. We might not have the answers. All we have is our stories. But I hope that we can inspire you as listeners to listen to this and go, I want that for my life. I want to transform this unforgiveness into forgiveness. I want to experience that freedom. Like you said, freedom. I love that. So where can people find you? Because I think you've whether it's your film, I want to know, I want to know personally, how can I see this? How can I find out more about Chantel Denise?

Chantel 35:29

So my, um, I'm on the social media platform, Facebook, under Shantel Deniese, and then I am on Instagram is IamShantelDeniese, and the rest like Twitter, ThisisShantelDeniese and I have my website, www.shanteldeniese.com. But a lot of what I do, I put things on Instagram, and I'll post it on my website, that's typically where I will put the work that I'm doing as far as for the art, and all of the storytelling that I'm trying to put out there.

Pandora Villasenor 36:08

Okay. And I will link all of that in the show notes. So I'm excited to have that there so that people can go and check out your stories and how you are using your transformed life to inspire other people. So amazing.

Chantel 36:23

Thank you, darlin. Thank you.

Pandora Villasenor 36:25

Is there any last words you have for our listeners today? No,

Chantel 36:28

I do. the only the only thing I would say is thank you for having me on here. Yeah, thank you. I just really appreciate that. I love what you're doing. And I think that, you know, these storytelling, the podcast and just really trying to find gifts in life. I think it's so needed in our world today. And I hope that the listeners will benefit from this greatly.

Pandora Villasenor 36:53

Thank you. I so appreciate you. Well loved ones. Chantel and I are so grateful that you chose to spend some time with us. We hope that this these stories inspire you to go out and face your unforgiveness and, and, and plug into whatever tools help you transform that into those gifts of resilience and love and mercy and artistic endeavor or whatever it is. Maybe it's just the opportunity to better connect with the loved ones around you. And boy, don't we need that here in 2020 we need our people we need our people and we need love more than ever. So loved ones again, thank you for being here and listening to The All Gifts Podcast. Until next time, remember, everything is a gift. Thank you for listening to The All Gifts Podcast. I'm your host Pandora Villasenor. I have a passion for coaching people to overcome the challenges in their lives by helping them to discover ways to transform those challenges into gifts, gifts of accomplishment, perseverance, strength and resilience. But most of all, peace and self love. Go to All Gifts book.com to join us for exciting updates on the launch of All Gifts the book to sign up for our newsletter and other freebies. That's All Gifts.