Transcript
Season 2. Episode 11 How to find purpose in your pain
SPEAKERS
Pandora Villasenor, Judy Thureson
Pandora Villasenor 00:00
In this episode of The All Gifts podcast, I talk with author Judy Thurston. Judy embodies what All Gifts represents. She has transformed quite possibly one of life's greatest challenges into the gift of purpose. In June 2019, Judy lost her 18 year old son Jacob, a rapper also known as Hella Sketchy to the opioid crisis. In her book, Beautiful Tragedy, how to cultivate strength and resilience during life's greatest challenges. Judy takes the reader on a real time journey as she processes her grief. Join us as Judy, a life coach and Grief Recovery Specialist goes through the GIVE principle, the tool she developed in us to help her get through that most difficult time. Listeners, whether you've been through this level of tragedy or not, Judy's story will inspire you. And her step by step process will give you a practical tool for transforming your pain into gifts of strength and resilience.
Judy Thureson 01:05
Sometimes God gives you the cure before he gives you the ailment. And then how gracious he is that he gives us these tools to kind of prepare us for what's to come.
Pandora Villasenor 01:17
You are listening to the All Gifts Podcast, where we unwrap some of life's most painful topics to find the hidden gift within. I coached people helping them discover ways to transform their challenges into gifts. I'm your host and author of the All Gifts memoir, Pandora Villasenor. Thank you for listening to the All Gifts podcast today. I have the most amazing woman on my podcast. I cannot wait to share her story with you listeners. Please welcome Judy thirsts. And Judy, please say hi to the audience and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Judy Thureson 02:09
Hi, thank you so much. First of all, for having me such an honor to be here. This podcast truly is a gift, especially right now. 2020 we need this more than ever. My again, my name is Judy Thureson and I am a life coach, a Grief Recovery Specialist. And now an author. My book came out in July 15. And I am just, you know, grateful to share my story with you my journey. The book is about my son, Jacob, who passed in June of 2019, from an overdose. And who knew that, you know, this book would be launched in 2020. When we are seeing an epidemic in addictions in relapses and overdoses, grief and loss and just total, you know, grief that just as a nation, but globally, and so I'm very passionate about you know, just sharing my story really helping people not feel alone in their journey. And just bringing hope to those who might feel isolated might feel shame. I know addiction is definitely one of those topics that people are not very open about because it just brings so much stigma and shame and and so my you know, my journey I'm very open about because I really want people to understand and and not feel alone in it. So yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah,
Pandora Villasenor 03:40
I'm so glad that you're here. When I think about the purpose of the All Gifts podcast, Judy, you epitomize that purpose. It is about, you know, telling our stories. We're not I'm not an expert. You know, I feel like you're an expert. In many ways. I am not an expert. I, you know, I don't have you know, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a neuroscientist. I'm not any of those things. But, but I believe that our stories are powerful. And I believe that your story of overcoming tragedy in your life is extremely powerful and valuable for people right now. So I'm excited. You literally are the reason why. You know, I got up today, I was excited to share your story with everybody like this. This is a story that needs to be told so that other people can learn how to face their challenges and find the gifts. So I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you so much.
Judy Thureson 04:34
No, thank you. I'm excited too.
Pandora Villasenor 04:37
So when someone thinks about the death of a child, it is like you said in your book, it's not something that there's even a word for in the human language. When a father we know when when a wife passes away. A man is a widow or when a husband passes away a woman is a widow when a parent passes away a person is an orphan but there is no word for a parent that loses a child, it is probably the most unimaginable grief that anybody can think about. And yet, in reading your book, you walk us through this journey that you go through processing your grief in real time. And you show how, by doing that, you've been able to see this tragedy in light of its gifts. Can you tell us more about that? Yeah,
Judy Thureson 05:29
I mean, I think I'm gonna rewind a little bit to the day that we got the phone call. So June 13 2019, my husband and I were actually talking about producing a meditation practice that was truly transforming my life. And I was so passionate about it, that everyone needs to learn these tools, because it was so just help. I felt like for me, it was the missing link. You know, like I said, I'm a holistic coach, and health and wellness. And, you know, I do a lot of different things to be healthy to be whole. But the meditation portion, I felt like this was it like this was something that I wanted to share with the world. And so I remember that morning, it's about 9:30am, I'm looking at my husband, and we're talking about producing this, this meditation program. And I said, I'm a little bit apprehensive, because anytime I try to do something like this, something, you know, to launch, something bad happens to Jacob. And Jacob, at the time was our 18 year old son, who had been battling with substance abuse, addictions, depression, mental health, mental health, for, you know, for the last couple years. And so, at this point, he was in a season of, you know, sobriety, he was healthy, he was going through a lot of therapy, all the therapists cleared him and, you know, said he was doing much better. But for some reason, there was still this feeling. And I think just a mother, mother's instinct, right? We just know. And I remember looking at my husband saying, you know, I feel still anxious and apprehensive about doing something like this, because, you know, I'm afraid of something bad happening to Jacob. And so I remember Erik, looking at me and saying, you know, not this time, Jacob is not going to derail this, this is your thing we're going to do this is going to be awesome, you know, and just kind of encouraged me. And he went off to work. And about an hour-ish later, I get a phone call from Jacob's girlfriend, saying that he was found unresponsive and was being rushed to the emergency room. And so here little did I know that the very tool that I'm so excited to launch to the world, for the very tools that was gonna really help me walk through this dark night of the soul. For you the moment, you know, yeah, instance that I was getting ready to walk through. And, you know, what I share the book is just my process. And what, what I did to kind of help me in the moment, deal with the tragedy, you know, at the point, when we got the phone call, we knew Jacob was going to the hospital, but we had no idea how severe what was happening, you know, they couldn't really tell us anything, they just said, get in your car and get here now. And so we live in Arizona, about a six hour drive, you know, from Arizona, to Los Angeles. And I started to really use the tools that I called the GIVE principle. And just kind of share with you what they are. Give is an acronym. And it stands for G is for grounding, I is for intention. V is for visualization. And E is for expressing gratitude. And so the first one grounding was so super important because coming from a person who's dealt with a lot of trauma in their in their life. Grounding and being present is not one of my strengths, right dissociation, checking out, numbing out, freaking out worried anxiety, you know, just completely shutting down. Those are my default settings. And so for me to really be intentional about grounding myself and being present in the moment was such a gift. You know, when Jacob was in the hospital, he was in there for about two weeks, while for two week total, and he never regained consciousness and he was in a coma the whole time. But I can tell you that the presence and the grounding exercise of being present there for him, was truly a gift that we could enjoy every breath that he took while we were in the hospital, even though he never regained consciousness. And for me, I'm just so grateful that I had that practice. Because my default would have been to be so worried and freaked out and so anxious that I would not have been able to really bask in that moment of just having those last two weeks with him, you know what I mean? So, I stands for intention. And again, intention, taking a chosen word, or phrase or a scripture or whatever it is, that you intentionally think about, right, I share this in my book is that most people don't know that they're already they are already expert meditators. Right. And what I mean by that is that we are all meditating on something, whether consciously or subconsciously, right, we're ruminating on things that we're thinking about. And usually it's something negative, right? Something that we're worried about that hasn't happened yet some kind of fear. And I mean, come on 2020, I'm sure we all have a lot of things that we can think about that, you know, is uncertainty of life right now. And so the practice of the GIVE principle I being intention is you're actually taking in a word for the day that you think about that you come back to. And so for me some days was just surrender. And I just needed to take that word and just internalize it. And whenever I start to go off course, I would just go back to that word of surrender, okay, what does that mean? What does it mean to just, you know, take a deep breath, and just surrender everything in the moment.
Pandora Villasenor 11:33
And I love how every chapter was, every chapter of the book was an intention in you that you walk through your day by day process with a different intention, which I found to be such a powerful way to tell your story.
Judy Thureson 11:48
Those were the intentions that are actually used during those hours, that was real time. So when you are meditating with me, and when you are doing the GIVE principle with me, when you read those chapters, those were the exact intentions of the day, that from the moment that we got the phone call.
Pandora Villasenor 12:05
You know, and that's very clear, Judy, just so you know, it comes across so clearly, so authentically, that literally, when you read Beautiful Tragedy, you are reading what felt like your journal, like your day by day processing, okay, that's what it felt like. And that's, you know, and of course, you know, but very professionally done, and very well done. You know, like, my journal, you know, I don't even know if anybody could read it at this point. But, but just walking us through where your mind was, where your heart was, and how you processed your pain in real time was extremely powerful and pertinent to any challenge. I could see myself right now, as I was reading the book, as I'm just dealing with, you know, challenges right here, right now, in 2020, just like you said, the uncertainty, the loss of certain expectations, the changes we've gone through, you know, family dramas, all the different things we're dealing with, even though it's not the same exact thing. I'm reading you process, and I'm going, Yeah, that's the experience I'm having right now. And then I would turn to the next chapter, with a new intention. And I would, it's like, I was there with you. It was amazing. So yeah.
Judy Thureson 13:15
Thank you. And I really, you know, I'm a spiritual person, I seek the power of the Spirit. And every day in my meditation practice, I would ask the spirit for the word. And so all those chapters are not mine. For sure, from the Spirit, the Spirit knew what I needed to get through that day, you know, so I mean, it's very, very powerful. I love it.
Pandora Villasenor 13:41
And before you move on to visualization, I just want to say that I relate to that, in terms of my memoir, All Gifts, because it was a it was a, it was me, dealing with some serious childhood wounds. And he, God, you know, and again, listeners, if that's not what you believe that's okay. But you know, call it what you will, but that inner wisdom inside that says, hey, I am going to have you do this and prompts you to go through an artistic process, a creative process, in a way, in a in so that you can heal is what I'm trying to say. So I you know, every time I sat down to write that book, he would take me to a new scene, quote, unquote, of my life, a new chapter, a new moment in my history to revisit it as if I was that age again, and he healed me through that process, and even the name All Gifts, which is the name of this podcast now, that was given to me by the Spirit that was, you know, me praying, like, I don't know what to call this, I'm not sure. And it came to me. All Gifts happens to be my name in direct translation in Greek. And my God, it's also the point of my story. See, it's like, you can't make this stuff up. This is the creator of the universe living inside of us, right?
Judy Thureson 14:57
So we'll double back on how the book came to be also, but yeah, when we finished the book, I don't lose my train of thought.
Pandora Villasenor 15:07
Yes, now, I will let you lose it.
Judy Thureson 15:11
So, V stands for visualization. And visualization is very powerful because truly if faith in action, right made this is being certain what we hope for what we don't see. So visualizing, I would just imagine what I want what I wanted to see. And the end result, which was Jacob healed, and Jacob waking up without any brain damage. I mean, at this point, when he was taken into the emergency room, they thought he didn't have oxygen for what could have been up to like 40 minutes, which the fact that he was in the emergency, or, you know, at the hospital, not having oxygen for 40 minutes was a miracle in itself, right. So there was a visualization portion of the practice, where I would just take a moment to visualize him healed. And so, obviously, that was not the outcome that we wanted, and that we had visualized. But I study a lot of Holocaust survivors read a lot of books. And I'll tell you, every single person that came out of those concentration camps, when they interviewed them and ask them, what was it that kept you going, every single one said, it was their visualization of, you know, dreaming about seeing their family, again, seeing their kids again, even though their whole family was, you know, was killed. And, and, and not even around anymore, like that is what kept them going. And so there's just something about the human spirit, that clings to hope, and hope to help us to survive, right. And so those were, like some survival skills that I needed. Even though, as a mom, I remember the first time I got to see Jacob, in the hospital, there was something inside of me that just was like, Oh, my gosh, I don't think we're going to come out of this. Like we're not, you know, this is not this does not look good. And I didn't say it out loud. Because I wanted to be faithful, I wanted to have hope I wanted to be, you know, fighting for my for my son. And it was just such a challenge, and a wrestling match and an emotional rollercoaster. If you read the book, you see, like so many things that were happening, that would kind of get our hopes up. And then, you know, just, you know, back to the lows and highs and lows. And so it's definitely an emotional roller coaster. But the visualization was very powerful, because it helped us to hang on to that hope, and not knowing what was going to happen. And then lastly, expressing gratitude. You know, gratitude is, is an incredible practice, obviously. But there's a whole other level when you start to express it because it really changes the atmosphere in the room. We were in the ICU for two weeks, and a night in the ICU is where death happens. Right? I mean, it's gloomy, it's dark, there's just help a helplessness and hopelessness all around you. And once we were in there, I mean, we really made it a point to express gratitude. And I really love Erik's heart. And this because I feel like he such a great example of being the one I mean, he knew every respiratory, you know, specialist, he knew every receptionist, he knew every doctor by name, and every, you know, everyone in the hospital, and he was asking them how they were doing. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, how do you even have the bandwidth to think about other people right now, and but I'll tell you, that really helped us to elevate the atmosphere in the ICU. I mean, we had nurses coming up to us at the end, crying and just saying, you know, we've never seen anything like this. This is where death happens. And you guys brought light to the ICU and other people, they're visiting their family members, and we were, you know, serving them and sharing our snacks and water with them. And, you know, it just helped us to feel humanity of man, you're not alone, you're we're all in this together, we're all hurting together. We're all you know, in this challenging time together. So that was the give principle. So grounding, intention, visualization, and expressing gratitude. And you can do that whole process in about 15 minutes. And you don't even have to have like a Zen place and you don’t have to have candles and music. Honestly, we need meditation the most in the midst of chaos in the midst of trials in the midst of suffering. And that's when I found myself really taking the time to do that because I knew that if I didn’t I would just unravel and spiral and and just not be present and not be able to, you know, really take in the moment. So. So that's the GIVE principle.
Pandora Villasenor 20:12
And you even did it in the back of an Uber. At one point.
Judy Thureson 20:15
Yeah, many times.
Pandora Villasenor 20:18
That was very inspirational. To me. I feel like one of the areas that's toughest is visualization. And I don't know if other people can relate to that. But I think there's a sense that, you know, of all the, of the four practices you just mentioned, it's the one that I struggle with the most, because I think on some level, I'm afraid if I visualize something really awesome, that I'll be disappointed, even more disappointed if it doesn't come to fruition. What would you say to somebody who feels similarly?
Judy Thureson 20:53
Wow, that's a great question. Because like I said, I was doing those visualizations during those two weeks. And most people probably read the book and say, well, that didn't work out too well for you did it. But what it what it does is it helps you in the moment to keep that energy, of positivity, of gratitude, of focusing on what you want to see happen, because what we focus on expands, right, like, that's just a universal teaching, what you focus on, you will get more of, and so if you train yourself to start to really create the thoughts of, you know, visualizing your dreams happen, and coming true, and your goals happening, and you know, hitting your goals, then guess what, that's the trajectory that you're going to go towards. But if you're ready, tell yourself, well, I don't want to be disappointed, because it's probably not going to happen. You just shot yourself in the foot, right? Like, of course, it's definitely not going to happen, because you've already closed that door. And so I'm really all about being open and free to go after what you want. And if it doesn't happen, guess what, there's another another door that's gonna open and if that door closes, there's another door like there's, there's plenty there's an abundance mindset of just because something closes doesn't mean that that's a dead end. That just means that's not it right now.
Pandora Villasenor 22:21
Well, no, I mean, yes. And if it wasn't that what you were visualizing wasn't true, it became true for you in a different way, you begin to see that the wholeness that you visualized for Jacob didn't look the way you thought it was going to, but there was still a wholeness there that you discovered it, do you know what I'm picking up on them correctly, because you've had to visualize him in a different way. Tell us a little bit about that visualization, how your visualization sort of transformed.
Judy Thureson 22:51
I love I love that you're asking me that. Because during around that time, Summer of 2019, there was a song that became really popular that everyone was texting me, oh, you need to, you know, sing the song, listen to the song, and it's called Raise a Hallelujah. And the backstory of that is the baby that got really ill. And the parents, you know, really called the church together to pray and sing the song and worship, Raise a Hallelujah, you know, and at the end, the baby survived, you know. And so to be completely honest, and unfiltered and rank, it really bothered me. Because for me, what does that imply that, oh, well, if your prayers didn't get answered, then something's wrong with you. Right? That's kind of the underlying message. And for me, what God really revealed to me was like, hey, how do you know that I didn't answer your prayer. How do you know that taking Jacob wasn't part of the plan. And that was the answered prayer. So I had to really wrestle with surrendering to the idea of God, answering our prayers, but maybe just not in the way that we would have thought he was going to answer it. And I have to be okay with that. And trust that there's a bigger picture. And so, visual visualization, visual advice, Oh, my gosh, I can I say that word. visualizing, visualizing, okay. So visualizing Jacob being whole and transformed, and not suffering and having peace, and being happy and, and, and joyful and connected. And faith was really the answered prayer of those visualizations. You know what I mean? And so it's something that my husband and I really wrestled with, it's something that we kind of just surrendered and I know that's a really hard thing for parents, because obviously, we would want nothing but to have Jacob here with us. But there was an openness and a willingness of really not our will but yours, you know, truly a surrender of what whatever happens, we're still gonna serve, we're still gonna love we're still gonna do whatever it takes to keep Jacob’s message and spirit alive.
Pandora Villasenor 25:27
Yes, and I. The other thing that I love that you speak about whether it's you know, the Facebook videos that I've seen, or the book, and when I say the Facebook videos I'm talking about like your coaching videos, is your very authentic about how just because you've gotten to a place of surrender doesn't mean that you always stay there. And it doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong. We're kind of always in this state of vacillating between control and surrender and resentment and gratitude. I mean, we we vacillate, we work through it, we go through the process, and for you, the GIVE principle, I'm sure helps you so much get to that place where maybe you wake up angry, maybe you wake up resentful, but you transform that until you get to the other side, you process it, you're real with your emotions. And then you get to a place where you're like, actually, I can find my gratitude again. And here it is. And then same with, you might feel fear and control in a moment. And then you work your, you know, all the tools that you have. And I want to hear more about some of the other tools that you've, you know, encountered in your life that have helped you get to the place that you are today. But you use those tools, and then you turn that control and fear into surrender. And it's a it's a process. And it's it's not something that you just kind of once and for all get there and stay there. It's his life. And it's messy, and we go back and forth. But hopefully we keep falling upward as Richard Rohr says, right, we learn to fall forward and upward. And so we keep maybe revisiting maybe lesser character traits as we work through them, maybe we can work through that faster and get to that place of wholeness faster, that place of healing faster, that place of surrender faster, whatever it might be. Can you tell us a little bit more about maybe some of the tools that you've used to get to this place?
Judy Thureson 27:22
Yes, I love that you share this, because I think this is a myth that maybe it's unspoken, but we're kind of taught that you are either grieving, sad, you know, experiencing loss and mourning, or you're over it and you're joyful, and you're happy and you can move on with your life. Right? And so it's kind of this either or, and what I've learned through this grieving process is that they can actually and they mostly do co exist together. And in some days, you know, at the same time, or you know, I'll wake like you said, wake up one morning dressed, grateful and joyful. And then next thing you know, I'm in my car having to pullover, because I'm sobbing in grieving and so just torn up inside that I can't even keep driving, you know. And so and that's okay. And I think we need to model that more often. vulnerability, I always say is not something you can really read in a textbook. I made sure you can, you can read all Brene Brown’s books, and learn a lot. But it's truly about humanity and connection and modeling those behaviors to to one another, the most authentic parts of us so that we can see Oh, wow, okay, it's okay. To be happy right now. And it's okay to be sad right now. And it's okay to be angry, right? I mean, I there's chapters in the book where I am, like, just totally mad, you know? And so, for me wholehearted living is experiencing all those emotions, bringing awareness to it, acknowledging it, and then riding that wave and then being okay with whatever it is that you're feeling what what we do usually in grief is that we feel a little bit of that pain and then what do we what do we do we want to numb it. We want to you know, stay away from it. We want to just not deal with it, frankly, because we're not really taught right, especially in social media society. In our everyday we're all showing our highlight reels and we're all showing our best foot forward. We're not showing what it looks like to be messy and to be afraid and to be sad and to be hurt. And so, for me wholehearted living is you can't pick and choose you've got you've got to own all of it. And it is also a beautiful thing to feel that pain because it shows how much you love, it shows how much you know, you grieve. If you grieve, and you miss the news, you care, you know, for your loved ones. So again, part of the the myths of grief in our society is like that there's a, there's a timetable, right? Like, oh, two years later, you should be over it by now. And why can't you get on with your life? Why are you still depressed? Why are you still in bed, you know, there's all this judgment. But as we know, there's no timetable for grief. And it's about just going through it and riding those waves. And sometimes those waves are long as like a tsunami. And sometimes, you know, you get through it, and you just let out a big exhale, and then you can move forward, right? So for me, really, the tools that helped me was just being honest, and feeling my feelings at 100%. I know in the book I share, you know, you can't heal what you're not willing to feel. And so that is an important one. Because, again, we're so not taught how to do that, and especially our kids. And I really think that's why mental health is at such a rise, because our kids don't know what that looks like to struggle to feel to right. They're so distracted at anytime they're bored, what do they do, there's a device to keep them occupied to like, you know, make them feel happy. There's a like on their comment or something that just takes them out of that feeling of boredom, of disconnection of sadness, of fear now of insecurity of being awkward, like, those are all human feelings, that is okay to feel. But we're so not taught how to do that. How do we fit in it? You know? Yeah. What else, I think another thing that we don't do is we're afraid to really speak and share our whole heart. And as a Grief Recovery Specialist, that is something that I practice that I've taught my kids how to practice, my husband knows this. So when we were in the hospital with Jacob, there was nothing left unsaid. You know, each of us had one on one time with Jacob. And even though he was not conscious, you know, he was still in the coma, we shared and we were able to express everything we needed to express all the hurts the pains of forgiveness, the reconciliation that resolves the joy, everything. A lot of times, grief comes from the unsaid and the the words and said that the feelings, the things unresolved, all the regrets. And when you really live in such a way where you're living in such an open hearted, you know, way, like you don't, you don't have those regrets. And there's so much peace with that. And that's what I love about our all of our relationship with Jacob is, when he passed that we can all walk away feeling like we said everything that we needed to say. And there was a piece that came over.
Pandora Villasenor 33:11
And that makes sense. It makes sense. And I love how you talked about there were times where you were able to find joy. And sometimes people didn't understand that given your situation. And tell me a little bit about how you worked through those feelings so that you could rest in your joy and and find peace in those moments.
Judy Thureson 33:32
Well, I again, I think we're so concerned about what people think that a lot of times we don't experience joy, or we don't allow ourselves to experience joy, because there's that nagging feeling of well, what are people going to think like, Oh, my grief is so raw. I shouldn't be smiling right now. Because I'm the mother and I should be, you know, buried under the covers crying all day, all night long. For me joy, having those moments of joy was a gift. And I didn't know when it was going to come back around again. So if there was a day where I felt joyful and happy and content and peaceful, you better believe I was gonna live in that space 100% because that's wholehearted living, right? And if I wait to get permission from people, right, the people pleasing part of me is like, Oh, is it okay for me to be happy now? Like, can I smile? Can I post a funny meme? Like, is this appropriate at this point, because I live so much in the spirit of really connecting to what's authentic to me. There's such freedom when you're not really caring about what people think, like that's their problem. They have a problem with that and they say if they want to judge me that's on them, but I live guilt free because I live authentically to how I'm feeling in the moment. And if that means being joyful, great if that means being angry if that means being sad, like I own 100% of those feelings in real time, that's, you know? Yeah, but I mean, I do.
Pandora Villasenor 35:11
You also talked about tears as, as a tool in a way. You mentioned a fancy word I cannot pronounce for a chemical that is in yours. Tell us a little bit about how tears played a part in your healing?
Judy Thureson 35:30
Yeah. I love that. That's from the Grief Recovery Institute, actually, and don't make me pronounce it either. technical word, but, but basically, how cool is God that He created us with tears? That has a an actual No, just that. I think that's how you call it like it's a, it's a healing property in our tear. Wow. And so when you tell people to stop crying or hold it in, or you have to kind of keep it together for people, what you're doing is you're preventing them from healing. Isn't that intense?
Pandora Villasenor 36:07
That is so cool. I love that. Yeah, that's a, that's a golden nugget right there.
Judy Thureson 36:13
So for me, I mean, especially in the earlier, you know, months of my grief, I mean, I would cry at a drop of a hat anywhere, and sometimes not sometimes, but usually, for some reason it would happen at Target, the Target, you know, shopping center, pushing my cart, and then just this flood of emotions with just come over me. And most normal people would be like, okay, I can't cry in Target like, I got to keep it together. But I would just let it go. And I would sometimes I'd hide in the fitting room so that I can like, just really get it out. But it's so important. Again, we're not taught to process in real time, we're taught, okay, you got to keep it together, you have to be strong. If you're going to go cry, cry alone cry in your room, those are the things that were taught. And so in my process, I have learned like, wow, it's really healing you in the moment to allow that grief to its energy, you've got to let it out or otherwise, it's going to manifest in very unhealthy ways. Yeah. Which can be you know, anxiety, depression, anger, just we start to, to kind of sweep everything under the rug until it gets so big, then we can't manage it anymore, right? So it's like, it's in the moment, you process and you cry, and you let it out and you feel whatever you have to feel. It's so much healthier. And I remember when I started to see my, my therapist, after all, you know, this, this that happen. I initially wanted to see her because I felt like I'm kind of handling this well. And I don't know if I'm deceived. Or if I'm really, you know, handling it. Okay, so I needed kind of a professional to look and speak into my life to say, all right, you're totally, you know, deceived. And you need some steps here to, you know, to heal in a more healthy way, or, you know, what, you know, validate, you're doing great and keep doing what you're doing. And so it was great seeing my therapist, because she says, Wow, I've been doing this for many, many years. And I've never seen anyone handle grief as healthy, healthily. Is that a word? as healthy as you have? You know, because of me processing in real time, every day, what I was feeling she says, that is the best way to handle grief. And people don't usually handle grief in that way.
Pandora Villasenor 38:50
Didn't she call it post traumatic growth?
Judy Thureson 38:55
Yeah, yes. So post traumatic growth is a thing. And it actually did it. The phrase didn't get coined until after 9/11. So there's two doctors, I can't think of their names right now. But two doctors did a study on survivors of 911. And they looked at people who thrive after, you know, the loss and losing people and losing, you know, and be experiencing 9/11 in real time there and then people who totally regressed and struggled with depression who are suicidal, who were just not doing well. And they saw some consistent things in the people that were thriving. And it was number one acknowledging their grief. Right? They have self awareness, they understood what they were feeling, and they number two did something about it. They got help. They got support, they got therapy, they went to support groups. And then number three, they had that healing faith community of people that can share their pain. So healing happens in shared communities and faith communities. And, and it was really cool for her to share that with me, because it showed me that that's pretty much how I've been living my life. For the last 15 years, I was exposed to Grief Recovery 15 years ago, and I've been using those principles and those practices in my life. And I sometimes I don't know if I share this in the book, but I share now that sometimes God gives you the cure before he gives you the ailments. And then how gracious he is that he gives us the tools to kind of prepare us for for what's to come is powerful.
Pandora Villasenor 40:45
I also just kind of turning to one of the maybe the last tools I remember picking up on when I read the book, which is how nurturing yourself became a new practice in your life, or one that I think came to the forefront more during this time of your life. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that?
Judy Thureson 41:09
Yes, actually, that that was inspired by Jacob. I would I would have morning walks, meditations. And after Jacob passed I would just talk to him, you know, and I would just ask him questions, and I would connect with him and his energy and ask for signs and different things. And after Jacob past, read it, we had no idea what he was carrying. But he, you know, was an artist, he was in the public eye. And after going through his social media, emails, different things, we saw that he was carrying so many people's burdens. And he, he was an empath. And so she really felt people pain, people hurt. And he was walking through with so many kids, online, you know, people that were suicidal people that were addicts, people that were coming out of the hospital for chronic illnesses, like, I mean, so many people, that he was just encouraging and helping and just being an ear. And I thought, wow, here's a kid who's 18 pouring himself out. And obviously, he didn't have the tools to pour back into himself. I mean, this is what I do for a living, and I know how challenging it is to pour back into myself, so that I can give to others. And so that's what really inspired me to call it the GIVE principle because in order to give to others, we must give from our overflow. Otherwise, we give from our emptiness, and we give and we end up burned out, right? That's where burnout happens. That's where exhaustion and chronic illnesses, like we just pour out so much and especially as Mom, you know, we're always the last ones, right? We can give to everyone else. But we don't give to ourselves. And when you are grieving, the last thing you want to do is self care, right? You're in so much pain, you just want to isolate, you just want to check out you want to I know for me, I'm still this morning trying to try on my quarantine jeans because I don't own a scale. But you know, I've gained like 20 pounds during quarantine and during grief that just because it's just the last thing we want to do is take care of ourselves. So during the self care has really helped me to kind of build back up my my confidence, my self esteem my my energy, so that I can be, you know, there for my other children, I still have an 18 year old and a 14 year old and a husband and you know a business like I still have to be present like Jacob died. And I still have to live like I can't just, you know, choose to let everything go, which is sad. Sadly, what a lot of mama grieving moms do. I'm a part of a lot of different grieving groups. And I can tell you, I've met so many moms who it's really hard for them to go on. And so for me, it's a choice every day, it's those little choices, making consistent choices and consistent action that builds my esteem that builds my confidence that builds that momentum to keep going and turning the other way.
Pandora Villasenor 44:35
So what are some of the practices? What are some of your self care? Sorry to interrupt you, but I'm curious.
Judy Thureson 44:41
Ya know, definitely working out is a huge one. Getting the body moving is is huge. And then just being careful with my diet, not because I'm trying to lose weight or for vanity reasons just because what you put in is how you're going to feel so if you put junk in, you're gonna feel like junk, right. And so just being more conscious about eating clean and drinking my water, obviously, my daily meditation is a huge part of my self care. And then being out in nature, I mean, I live in Arizona, it's so beautiful, especially this time of year, being able to get out and hike and walk and breathe fresh air. You know, normally connecting with friends and community is a huge one. But that's kind of been taken away from us during this COVID season that we're in this pandemic, you know, and so being creative with Zoom calls, and I have a family dance party on Friday night with my sisters, and we just, you know, get together and let lose and that's a really fun. And so yeah, there's there's a lot of things journaling, obviously reading and praying, and, you know, a lot of things, but I think the most important thing is, is creating a ritual for yourself, I say this, a lot of you know, we don't negotiate with ourselves, right. And we, we evenly do that, like, if you really think about you keep your word to everyone else. But when it comes to ourselves, it's easy to kind of flake on ourselves, right, and say, Oh, I'm gonna work out tomorrow. And then if you wake up not feeling like it, it's easy to be like, maybe later, or maybe, maybe, you know, next week, maybe I'll start Monday. But for me, I really started to not negotiate with myself and I and having self integrity. And when I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it, because that's what builds my confidence and my self esteem. And that's what builds momentum for me to really move the needle and shift my energy into growth and healing, and being able to be what I need to be for others.
Pandora Villasenor 46:52
So yes, you have found so much purpose in your pain. And I know that you've answered this question. But if you could summarize, just maybe in one or two sentences for the listeners, what would you say have been the gifts that you have found during this past couple years, this season of grieving?
Judy Thureson 47:16
There's so much but I know that Jacob was only 18. And he lived his life authentically and wholeheartedly. And he truly didn't care what people thought, right? He had pink hair, he was a rapper, he, you know, the style was very his own. And for me as his mom, like I am learning through him how to live in that way how to live wholeheartedly, how to not leave anything behind, and put it out there like writing my book that was truly putting everything out there, I did not leave anything unturned, you know, it's a very unfiltered, raw, open, you know, depiction of my journey. And all these things I would not have been able to do, had it not been for Jacob example, and really has lost, you know, as as hard as it is, obviously, to lose, you know, your firstborn, my son, my only son. What I learned from that is how to live so free, and not care about people, judgments and opinions of me, that I'm able to really step into my destiny and my calling in a way that I don't think I would have been able to do if it not have been predicted. passing away, you know? Yeah. So it's such a bittersweet, you know, dichotomy, right? How do you how do you process that? And I can't if I think about it too much. I'll spiral and so I share in the book, I don't live in the why I live in the what? Okay, so I can't I can't change the why of why what why this happened, or that happened, or what's going to happen, but I can live in what am I going to do with it right now? What am I going to do with these gifts? What am I going to do with this journey? What am I going to do with the story, and that I feel like is what gives me purpose and what I'm passionate about.
Pandora Villasenor 49:26
And you're helping so many people in his story, and who he was and, and how much he cared about other people and the way people responded to him and how you get to carry that light. And then energy for it is is a truly beautiful way to look at pain and find the one you know, what am I going to do next? Well, you've certainly shown that and so I want so many people to be able to find you to be able to look you up what would be the best place for our listeners to find you.
Judy Thureson 49:56
It's pretty simple, JudyThureson.com One word and that JUDY, th u r e. s. o n.com. And you can also order the book, from my website, Beautiful Tragedy, you'll get a signed copy, or you can get it at Amazon or Barnes and Noble. And again, it's called Beautiful Tragedy by Judy Thureton.
Pandora Villasenor 50:23
And where can they find you on Facebook? Because I know that you have several coaching groups and different things. Can they link that through your website? Or is there a separate place to go on Facebook?
Judy Thureson 50:34
So on Facebook, I have a private group called Beautiful Tragedy book. And if you just find that on there, I'll go ahead and accept you. And we keep that private, because we do have quite a few grieving, you know, parents on there, or people with kids struggling with addiction, and we want it to be a safe place where people can share and and find community. I really, really believe in a safe community. And that's really important to me. And so we have that. But all the other coaching you can find on my website. And we do that also on, you know, it's all online. So right now you can do it from anywhere in the world.
Pandora Villasenor 51:15
Yes. And we'll link that in the show notes. So thank you so much, Judy, for being here. And listeners. If you have any questions at all, feel free to reach out to me reach out to Judy directly, but we just want to let you know that the purpose of this podcast is to help you find your gifts and your challenges. Thank you for listening and have a beautiful day. Thank you for listening to the All Gifts podcast. I'm your host Pandora Villasenor. I have a passion for coaching people to overcome the challenges in their lives by helping them to discover ways to transform those challenges into gifts, gifts of accomplishment, perseverance, strength and resilience. But most of all, peace and self love. Go to AllGiftsbook.com to join us for exciting updates on the launch of All Gifts the book to sign up for our newsletter and other freebies. That's AllGiftsbook.com