Transcript

All Gifts Season 2. Episode 14. How to Love Your In-Laws

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 Speakers:

Pandora Villasenor, Heaven Dampier

Pandora Villasenor  00:00

We've all heard the in-law jokes. Why is being a mother in law to your son's bride so difficult? What's up with all that tension between mother-in-laws and daughter-in-laws? How do we make that go away so that what feels like pain can eventually be a gain? This episode of The All Gifts Podcast is about the taboo topic of mothers and daughters-in-law. Joining me for the conversation is my daughter-in-law Heaven Dampier. Heaven is a stay at home mom and part time social influencer and vlogger. She's married to my son Jarelle and they have a two-year-old son named Ronin. I'm so looking forward to sharing this with you.  I'm not a psychologist or a therapist. I'm a woman who shares stories to help other people get inspired to turn their challenges into gifts. Be sure to go to my website, www.Pandoravillasenor.com to download my journal prompts for emotional processing to help you get there. 

Heaven Dampier 00:52

Things like this come up. And also like I said, I'm not like a super emotional person or at least I don't know how to express very well. Pandora is very good at expressing her emotions and she has a lot of them. So it helps me to understand those because sometimes itt can be like, "what, where is this coming from?" but now having a son, it just like literally paint the picture for me and I understand and she has such a soft heart. 

Pandora Villasenor  01:18

He has such a soft heart. You are listening to The All Gifts Podcast, where we unwrap some of life's most painful topics to find the hidden gift within. I coach people, helping them discover ways to transform their challenges into gifts. I'm your host and author of the All Gifts memoir Pandora Villasenor. Well, thank you listeners for being here today at The All Gifts Podcast. I am so excited about this topic and have waited weeks to have my guest on today, Heaven Dampier, my daughter in law, and we're going to talk today about the taboo topic of mothers and daughter in laws. So I am so excited that you're here Heaven. Please say hi to our listeners and tell them just a little bit about yourself.

Heaven 02:15

Hey everyone, my name is Heaven Dampier. I am Pandora's daughter-in-law, her son's wife. Jarelle's wife. I am 26-years-old and I have one son named Ronin. He's two-years-old. And right now I am a stay at home mom and I also do some influencer work, quote unquote, on Instagram and Tik Tok and YouTube. 

Pandora Villasenor  02:45

Yeah, and later on, we'll give you some information about that. So you can find Heaven because after you hear this conversation you're gonna want to. So Heaven, how long have you been married? It is four years now. Right? Yeah. Or this will be the fifth year 2021. Wow, and such and action packed four years, thinking about all the things that have happened in the world since you guys got married. Well, I've been excited. Heaven and I have talked about this. But we haven't really gotten into detail about it. But we wanted to bring up the topic because when it comes to daughter-in-laws and mother-in-laws, you know, everybody knows the stereotypes, right? Like you see it played out in movies and TV shows. It's just one of those taboo topics. And it's taboo because there's just so much there that people don't normally talk about. So we thought, hey, let's have a podcast episode and just talk about the challenges that we've both had, and then how we've worked through them. So Heaven, why don't you start? Do you have a certain challenge in mind that you wanted to bring up?

 Heaven 03:55

I think there are two main things that come to mind. The first one is growing up as a Korean American. I speak Korean with my mom. And but it's not my . . . I'm more comfortable with English. So you know, I process things in English, all of my complicated and complex thought processes and feelings. I process all of that in English. So I never grew up really talking to my mom a lot. Of course, we talked and you know, I can speak Korean and she can speak English on a you know, she runs a whole business here. So she could speak English, but we don't really converse on that level. And I don't speak Korean well enough to converse on that deep level. So we have, yeah, it's been like, we'll get deep sometimes if I'm feeling something or if we're fighting or whatever. We'll always kind of sit down and talk to each other, but like on a normal day, she wouldn't really be like, "how are you Heaven?"  and I wouldn't really, we just don't really talk like that. It's a little hard to explain, I'm sure other people that are in the same boat would understand. But with that being said, I just grew up not really talking about my feelings a lot, especially with my mother. So like a mother figure, or even knowing how I feel, and just how to explain or express that. Now with Pandora in the picture, obviously, she speaks English, I speak English, you know, we are on a level where we can have deep conversations and talk about our faith and our feelings and emotions and all of that, which is a huge blessing, because I just had without, just without growing up with that, it's, you don't really realize how much of a gift that that is until you have it. But it also became a challenge at times, because, like, I just didn't know how to. I was just so not used to doing that. Pandora is here, you know, willing to talk and listen, and, you know, discuss things with me, but I just didn't first of all even know how to approach that or be approached about that, because I've never, that's never happened before. And even when we're talking about it, I just don't even know how I feel or how to talk about it. So yeah, that was one. I think that's one of the main things. And that also ties into, I feel like we never really had any like, crazy big issues, you know, until maybe like when Ronin came to the picture, like when I became a mom, I feel like that brought up certain things for Pandora. And then also, for me, and it tied into just the communication aspect.

Pandora Villasenor  06:59

Yeah, yes, yes. And before we move off of this, this one is such a good one. And I want to say yes, I mean, we have two families coming together with very different cultural backgrounds and cultural norms. And that's not necessarily tied to ethnicity or race. It happens to be in this case, but that could happen in any family, just because, you know, everybody comes from a different family of origin, right, that handles communication different and handles conflict different and all those things. I will say it wasn't until, so kind of backing up, sort of giving, like maybe my perspective of that. I think what happens to moms when they have sons that I don't know, if mom's talk about this much. I know I didn't really understand it until I went through it. But when . . . you know and maybe it's that way with daughters, Okay, I'm gonna say I don't have daughters, I have two sons. But I think when my son, my oldest son Jarelle, your husband, was growing up, like when he moved into that adult stage, it was really hard for me, because, you know, I was, just used to having him in my life and always being there for him. Even after he grew up, I was still like, planning his birthday parties. And, you know, I mean, literally, right, like, I was still playing his birthday parties. Yeah, everything. So,  and then they get married, or they just get engaged. And then all of a sudden, like, this very big event that happens in their lives, you have nothing to do with it. So you go from like, literally being the director still of every big event, to absolutely having no role

Heaven  08:37

overnight. Yeah,

Pandora Villasenor  08:38

overnight. And I don't know that I was prepared for that. And I don't know if I could have been prepared for it. But that's why I said it's really cool to share now and to be able to talk about it in this format, or just like one on one with you over the last couple years. Because I think while I was going through it, it was so huge for me that I didn't want to hurt you guys with it, because I knew intuitively like okay, this is a thing that you're going through. This is grief. And you don't want them to solve it for you because it's not on them to solve it for you. This is something you have to work through on your own. Not on my own but you know, obviously with my support and God and all my emotional and, you know, spiritual tools. But I had to work it out. And moms, if you're in this situation, or you're going to be in this situation, I would just encourage you don't take it to your kid or his bride. You know, it's just not . . .

Heaven  09:36

I will say Pandora, you have done. . . like, I could tell that you were going through that. But like, just from like energy, you know, and vibes around that time and the engagement and wedding and stuff, but you never like put that on me. I feel like you. I knew that you were going through something but you were like working through it. And then you figured it out. And just kind of were able to process it like you said, through praying and through friends and talking and all of that with you and God. And when it came to you and me like you just always left it on the table and didn't bring it into our relationship and even with like, Jarelle. You never like, went behind my back to, I don't know, talk to him on the phone late a night.  I know some mother in law's do that.

Pandora Villasenor  10:23

They do.

Heaven  10:24

Yeah, they do. And now that I have a son, I kind of get it, which we can talk about that later. But I think, yeah, like you never put that on me. So I'm always grateful for that.

Pandora Villasenor  10:37

I am so grateful that we can talk about it now and I am really grateful for the way I handled it. Because I'll tell you what, I'm not saying that to toot my own horn. I'm saying it to say, moms, we go cuckoo. Okay. It's a little bit of crazy, right? It's a crazy time. And so we're going through all this grief. And I'm just gonna say it. It feels like a breakup. You know? And I know that sounds kind of creepy in a way because it could sound like, "Oh, that's inappropriate." No, I'm saying no. It's your son. Obviously, it's not a romantic relationship, but the way a breakup physically feels in your body. That's what it felt like. Like that feeling of like, wow, I'm not needed anymore. I'm not wanted anymore. I don't have a place here anymore. Now, none of it's true. It's a change. And so you have to work through it and go, "Okay, this is grief." These feelings and grief can come about when there's just a significant change. And this is okay. And this is normal. And it stinks. And it hurts right now. But it won't. And I just kept focusing on. . . I used to say this to myself, "Pandora, bite your tongue and sit on your hands."  Because I would, I would want to call him. I'd be like, "I should call right now. And then I should tell him." No, no, you know, and so I'm really, really happy that I didn't. But yeah, it was a lot of prayer. And, and it's just, it's normal, I think but because we don't really talk about it or like it's, it's taboo, like women just kind of go through it. And then the first instinct you have is to go to your son to fix it. That's just normal, I think and, and yet, it's like the worst thing you can do. Personally, that's my humble opinion. That's my humble opinion.

Heaven  12:21

Yeah, I mean, I think, like one of the things that helped us the most was to acknowledge that it's weird and talk about it, you know, and talk to each other about it and ask questions. And, you know, so that's like, one of the main things. I feel like that has helped us through it.

Pandora Villasenor  12:39

Yeah, yeah. And I think . . . and we didn't do it. We didn't have those conversations when I was in the middle of it. You were planning a wedding. Right? Right.

Heaven  12:47

Right. I was,

Pandora Villasenor  12:48

I was in the heightened emotional state. That's not the good time to talk to your daughter in law, right.

Heaven  12:52

I'm talking about that time in that retreat, which was years, years later,

Pandora Villasenor  12:58

four years later, and it was beautiful. And I loved it. But yeah, for the listeners, oh, yeah. We did not have those conversations back then. No, it was something that would have not been good. No, it was important for me to like, know that my grief was real. But know that again, I'll say it again. It was not your responsibility. It wasn't his responsibility. It was normal. It was a stage. I see it as like a stage I had to go through just like he was going through a stage. You were going through a stage. I was going through a stage and probably your mom was probably going through stage.  No, everybody, you know, this was the first wedding on both sides. You know? First time any of us had kids getting married. So I'm sure. But yeah, I just I would say the best thing that helped me at that time, kind of like processing through it was just going to my support system. Talking to very, you know, just one or two friends because the other thing is I didn't want . . . even though you guys knew I was going through something, you guys didn't need to know like, I didn't need anybody getting stuff back to you. That was stuff that was unprocessed, you know, information. It's like so just a couple safe people and you know, God. And journaling and all that good stuff.  So so Okay, so let's talk about then the stakes got higher, right? Because enter challenge number two, Ronin, the grand baby. So let's talk a little bit about that. He changed the game. I would say he heightened what I had under control, like so everything that I had been doing like, "Oh, look at me, I am the mother-in-law that doesn't get involved with things that aren't my business." And then you had a baby and it was like, oh, temptation came back.

Heaven  14:43

Yeah, I mean, even that I feel like you handled well. It just kind of . . . I think the tension. There was so much tension between both of us that it just kind of not blew up, but we we had to tackle it. I think sooner than like, just after we were processed or whatever, you know.

Pandora Villasenor  15:05

I think, but I don't think it was too bad until Coronavirus, because I think

Heaven  15:10

Yes, that's right. Right.

Pandora Villasenor  15:12

Because up to that point, it was like, all right.

Heaven  15:14

Yes, I was going to say, we were able to stay cool, calm and collected. And then

Pandora Villasenor  15:19

and then there was a pandemic. Then there was a global pandemic, right? No, but I mean, there was when he was first born, you know, there's like, you know, it's, it's my son's baby, right. So like, if I, if it had been a daughter,

Heaven  15:34

everything you were feeling time 10

Pandora Villasenor  15:36

Yeah. And like, if this had been my daughter, I would have been in the room and I would have been like, right there. And I think, for moms like, and I'm, you know, when it comes to being, and this is something you're gonna right? Experience one day. Because you have a son. Moms, like whether it's a son or daughter, we want to be on the inside of stuff, like we want to be like, when it comes to our kids, we want to be on that inner circle. And, but when you have a son, and sons, because I'm going to go through this one day with with Evan, God willing, there's that you don't have that same access, because you're not the mom of the daughter of the bride of the girl. And so, you know, so what I felt at the beginning with the wedding, and all those things, it came back, like, tenfold with the grandbaby because I'm like, oh, and what was so funny, I remember I was feeling that out in the waiting room. And then I got sick and had to go home anyway. But it was like, in a way, it was kind of like, well, it was kind of, it was kind of nice in a way because I feel like God allowed that to happen. Because otherwise I would have sat out there in the hallway feeling left out. And he just removed me completely from the situation. So listeners, I got a, like food poisoning at the hospital. And while she was giving, going into labor, and had truly

Heaven  17:00

could not be at the hospital during the birth,

Pandora Villasenor  17:03

right, literally removed from the situation, spiritually, by supernatural forces. So tell me, what was that like for you? Because Heaven and I had a fantastic conversation a year ago, where we really and I'm so grateful for it, Heaven was really open and vulnerable about how having a baby really, you know, just gave her so much insight. And it also brought up a lot of other things, too. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that?

Heaven  17:32

Yeah, I don't know if I fully remember everything that we talked about in that conversation, but I will try to touch on it.  Like Pandora said, you know, I knew that she wanted to like be in our life. And like be like, she took two weeks off, was it two week or one week off to like, the week that Ronin was born, she was like, prepared to like, you know, like, be here with us. And with the baby, you know, helping, which I like, honestly, none of that crossed my mind at all. I just was, I just remember being so exhausted, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally, everything and then Ronin, you know, didn't pee for like 48 hours. So that was something that was completely consuming our minds and worrying. He finally did, thank God. But then, so we had to spend an extra unprepared night at the hospital. So we were just, like, ready to be home and relax, and just kind of be us three, for the first time with no nurses coming in every hour. So yeah, we were just like, really anticipating that. So I don't know, I think just during all of that, like, the only thing that I think of is first of all my family like my little family. No. And then also like, I just want my mom like when I was giving birth and I just had no idea what was gonna happen like I was scared and also excited. But like, when all of that is going on. That is like the first and only thing on my mind is just like I want my mommy even more than Jarelle like I want my mom. So I actually didn't even like really plan for her to be in the room with me when I gave birth but she was there. And it was you know, awesome. But yeah, I don't I feel like I mean, I'll let Pandora speak for herself but she, Pandora was very like, expectant during that time and like waiting and kind of excited about this time while I was kind of like in my own little world. But aside from that, that's like the newborn days. I just feel like I don't even know what it is to this day. I don't know exactly where I could pinpoint you know. My exact feelings about it, but I just think that there is . . just when you have your own kid, you just become so like, protective and just you know, obsessed with them and so it's not even like a trust thing of like I don't trust Pandora you know and Joe to take care of him. It's just my own fears. And as a first time mom especially there's just so many thoughts that go through my mind and especially me as someone who plans everything and overthinks everything. I get really just kind of overwhelmed with the idea of like my baby spending time somewhere else that's not mine. And you know, Coronavirus heightening this as well, like the germs and fear and all that. But yeah, I don't know, Ronin just brought up a lot of emotions in both of us. And like, I don't know, I just feel I don't even know exactly what the turning point was for me. But I just remember being so tired. And I don't know, just wanting help, you know, because you reach that point. And then, yeah, and you, he spent time there, and you see that he loves it. And he loves both of them. And it's just like, all of my overthinking kind of goes away as soon as I see Ronin spend time with them.

Pandora Villasenor  21:37

You know, it's so funny as you were sharing about that newborn stuff. I like I have almost forgotten about all that. Because now, you know, we spend so much time with him. But it's even in my book because it was such a like, "Oh my gosh, I have to process this hard thing." I don't want to give away the book, but but it was it was hard. You know, and I almost forgot about it. Because we do have such a great cadence right now. Visiting and being together as a family during Coronavirus and having our COVID pod. But yeah, that was hard. It's so funny, right? There's like two things going on you you know. Here you are. You're this like first time mom and you and Jarelle just want to be alone with him. And you've got you know that exhaustion and all that it's totally makes sense. And it's totally natural and normal. And then meanwhile I'm over there this like super giddy. "Oh my gosh, my baby's having a baby." You know, I can't wait. I'm taking time off work. I want to be there when it . . .  you know and I like envisioned like, you know, helping you guys washing your dishes, washing your floor, washing your clothes, like whatever you need. But at the end of the day, when I asked what did you need? You just wanted to be alone. I was like "and scene." No. So it was hard.

Heaven  22:57

But at that time people were bringing us dinner like yeah, like some of them were overstaying their welcome. Yeah. Like, all right. I was just like, please just leave us alone. And then our like, I don't know if you remember, our laundry room flooded.

Pandora Villasenor  23:12

When people come, it was a lot, a lot. And remember, when you were like big pregnant, you had like some problems in the house too. So there's, like, you know, I feel like for me, though, what I realized at that moment was kind of just like everything else . . . with the wedding, everything else, it was just another level of surrender, and that, and that it was my place to surrender. It was on me to surrender, you know, and, and to wait until I was invited into, you know, allow you guys your space to invite me in. And I think one of the things that came up for me was, you know, having brought the kids into the world at a time in my life where I wasn't well adjusted, and I wasn't in a healthy place and have some regrets and things like that, I think what really kind of was sort of the, you know, that enemy that sits on your shoulder that's, you know, speaks lies and makes you think like bad things about yourself was really harping in on me at that time. Like, "they don't trust you, they don't want you around," you know, and I was just like, "Oh my gosh, is that true?" And I think

Heaven  24:12

And that was never the case.

Pandora Villasenor  24:13

And that's the lie, right? That like evil, you know, voice in our heads that says, you know, basically lies that that just hurt us. And so those are the things to work through. But like, of course, I had to work through those things, but ultimately landed on like, this is normal, they need their space. And I think if moms can take themselves, you know, kind of out of their own perspective and try to see things from their daughter-in-law's perspective, it helps a lot because whenever I did that, then I would go, "No, this is, she's just tired. She just needs you know, space and she will, you know, she will want me you know, at some point to help and to be there" and you did and you know, but it doesn't take away from how painful that is. So I want to acknowledge that pain. It's real. But that doesn't mean it's the truth. You know? So and then we had a good thing going and you just started feeling like we could take him. And I remember it was March . . it's like the first, like the last week of February and we, you know, he came

Heaven  25:17

over like a day at your house.

Pandora Villasenor  25:20

Yeah, yep. And it was our first big outing day without mom and dad. We took him to the train store and bought him train sets. And right, we had this plan. We just started this plan where you were like, "Wow, you guys could take him like, even maybe once a week and like, spend time with us.

Heaven  25:34

Yeah, and I was like, please.

Pandora Villasenor  25:38

And then the global pandemic. Yeah, so then we had to navigate that. And I think that just put a monkey wrench in everybody's plans. But, but we worked through that too, you know?

Heaven  25:50

Yeah. Yeah, that was a short little blip. But we figured it out. And I think Ronin spent like the most time ever, during the past year with you guys. So

Pandora Villasenor  26:01

it's been awesome. It's been so good. But there was, you know, two or three months in the Coronavirus, where we were still trying to work out what was happening with this virus. Did we, could we shelter together? Should we shelter apart?  And I I wanted to respect you guys on that, too. I mean, you definitely had you and Jarelle had a more conservative outlook on what was happening versus I was like, "Well, I mean, you know, as long as we're reasonably protective, we should be all good," you know. So, you know, and so that that was another point of surrender. Yeah, what I realized during all this is having a relationship with our adult children, I know you've heard me say this before, is not a given. Having relationship with our adult children is a gift. And it's a privilege. And I don't mean that in this, like, you guys have all the power or power thing. I just mean, when our children grow up, they have a choice. I want them to have a choice. I never want my kids to grow up with that feeling of "Oh, God, we gotta go see what mom wants, I gotta go spend time" you know what I mean? Like, I want Jarelle and Ronin and you and Evan and his future family to be like, "man, when we go over to Pandora and Joe's or Mom and Joe's like, it's gonna be fun, and we're gonna feel taken care of, and we want to go over there because they fill us up, they fill us up with . . ."

Heaven 27:25

That's how we feel

Pandora Villasenor  27:26

Good then it's working. So is there anything that you know, that you can say that helps you process challenges like this just for the listeners? Because I think one of the things like we're not psychologists on The All Gifts Podcast, we're not therapists, we're just people that work through our challenges. And so is there anything you can share with the listeners as to like, what did you do? Or how do you currently just manage challenges that are on this emotional scale?

Heaven  27:56

Yeah, I think one thing is definitely finding people to talk to about it, that are in a similar life space, as you, for example, that I could talk to, to kind of envision their perspective. So like, allowing me to process with someone like you, that's not you, you know, so that you don't have to hear my whole process, but someone that would understand my situation and your situation and be able to give me perspective on why you would say, or do the things that you do. And give me some perspective on that. And I mean, obviously praying, like, it really helped my heart to just kind of sit down and reflect on my emotions, and try to think of why I feel them and kind of pinpoint what I could do to help that situation. But, um, yeah, the biggest thing, I think, is to try to relate, you know, and I think, with that being said, the biggest thing in all of this that has helped me to understand your perspective is because I have a son now, you know, so I with having Ronin he's going up so fast, I feel like him getting married is going to be tomorrow. I believe that is going to be so quick. And I think about it every day honestly. And then I think about the stuff that Pandora has told me and you know, explained and I think about me, you know, in her position many years down the road and that helps me to be much more compassionate, much more humble, much more understanding, you know, when things like this come up. And also like I said, I'm not like a super emotional person, or at least I don't know how to express very well. Pandora is very good at expressing her emotions and she has a lot of them. So it helps me to understand those because sometimes I can be like, what, why? Where's it coming from? But now having a son. It just like literally paints the picture for me and I understand.

Pandora Villasenor  30:11

He has such a soft heart. He's an empath. Yeah. So sweet. I love what you shared, you said, Let me make sure I heard you right. And so that the listeners also pick up on this, you sought out being able to process with people who were in my life space, kind of similar, so that you can really get that good, you know, opportunity to be heard, but then also hear what could possibly be some similar, like, maybe concerns or perspectives that I have. And Heaven, you know, I thought you were gonna say, talking to other people who are like you who are in the same life space, who also have mother-in-laws that they're trying to, you know, manage?

Heaven  30:54

They would only, you know, relate to me. And, you know, not really help.

Pandora Villasenor  31:01

Yeah, that was really wise that you did that. And I know, you know I know, at least one woman in your life that you talked to, and, and I'm really grateful for that. And I think that was really wise of you and I hope that people who are listening who are daughter-in-laws, will also take a similar approach. Because here's the thing, at the end of the day, our relationship was centered around. Well, we had shared interest in obviously loving Jarelle. And then we also have the shared interest of loving God and being Godly women. And so we had all of those things working for us. And so those were really good. But I think even within that so many people have that and still can't find the same level of peace and love that we've found. So I think the key is, you know, what you did, by, you know, seeking other perspectives and gaining compassion and then me doing the same and eventually we found ourselves in the middle and having a conversation three and a half years later to go, "Hey, wow, this has been hard for me. It's, it's been hard for you." So it's just beautiful. It's such a gift. So Heaven I think you are such a gift. And I want to say that I've gained way more, 1000 times more than I lost. And we don't realize that when we're hurting. But I remember a wise woman who was a little bit ahead of me, whose son had already gotten married and had been married for a couple years, saying to me, "I know that right now you're in the pain. But what I want you to do is set your mind to know that down the road, there's a gain. This isn't  . . . right now. It feels like the pain but there's going to be a gain, you're going to gain a family member, you're gaining a daughter, you're gaining a daughter" and I was like, I've always wanted a daughter you know, it's like okay.

Heaven  32:51

Yeah, that reminds me there's a meme that I saw and it was like we need to get rid of something along the lines of we need to get rid of toxic mother-in-law daughter-in-law relationships. When my son gets married, I'm going to be like boom and have a gender reveal party like boom, it's a girl!  Now I have a daughter.

Pandora Villasenor  33:10

Yeah, it's again, 1000 times and 1000 doesn't even like actually capture it. I have so much in you that I never had before. And so now it's like, it's like not even you know, a thing. It's like, it's all gain and then of course like any family we have normal stuff that's going to come up. Right now it's, you know, the Coronavirus but one day it can be something else, a difference of opinion about what Ronin is going to wear or do one day or maybe not anything that petty. I'm just saying, families all have conflict and that's just normal stuff but the whole toxic mother-in-law daughter-in-law thing I just feel so blessed that we were able to just tap into our tools and and work through it and get to where we are today. So tell me how can our listeners find you? I would love for them to know about, for example, your YouTube channel because it is amazing.

Heaven  34:15

Yeah, so my handle for like everything across the board is my first and last name, Heaven Dampier, that's for Instagram,Tik Tok and my YouTube username.

Pandora Villasenor  34:33

I will link that in the show notes for sure. Well, Heaven and listeners I am so happy that we had this conversation and I just want to ask if there is anything else you want to leave, just one other comment or anything else you want to leave for listeners before we close out?

Heaven  34:53

Um, I don't think so. We have covered everything. Yeah.

Pandora Villasenor  34:57

Okay, good. I want to make sure I always ask just in case there's something else, you know, is on someone's mind. Listeners and Heaven I just want to thank you so much for being here today.

Heaven  35:06

Thank you.

Pandora Villasenor  35:06

Thank you for listening. I'm so excited that that we were finally able to do this scheduling and everything. Oh my gosh, it's so hard. But despite everything despite it all while we did it despite the global pandemic, we made it happen. Because we've been planning this in person for weeks and finally just said, You know what, let's just do it over the phone. So, thank you. I love you so much.

Heaven  35:28

I love you.

Pandora Villasenor  35:29

Listeners, thank you so much for being here. Heaven and I have so many little nuggets that we want to share with you but there's only so much we could put in one episode. So thank you for listening and let us know if there's anything you want to know more of. You can check out Heavens Instagram or her vlog on YouTube or Tik Tok. And as always, guests I want you to know and listeners that everything that happens to us is a gift. Until next time.  Thank you for listening to The All Gifts Podcast. I'm your host Pandora Villasenor. I have a passion for coaching people to overcome the challenges in their lives by helping them to discover ways to transform those challenges into gifts, gifts of accomplishment, perseverance, strength and resilience. But most of all, peace and self love. Go to www.allgifts book.com to join us for exciting updates on the launch of All Gifts the book, to sign up for our newsletter and other freebies. That's www.allgiftsbook.com