Transcript
Season 3. Episode 18. How to Overcome Abuse in Marriage
SPEAKERS
Pandora Villasenor, Jodie Cooper
Pandora Villasenor 00:00
In this episode of The All Gifts Podcast, I'm joined by Jodie Cooper my first international guest. Jodie is Australian and writes children's books for Christian families and has a YouTube channel called the Gospel Led Family. In this episode, we talk about how Jodie found herself in an abusive marriage, where punishing behavior, moods and tone and anger was used to manipulate and control. When Jodie first shared this with me, I was just picturing her brooding, abusive husband. Then Jodie shared that she was the abusive one. I was taken back, and a little intrigued, I think you will be too! Check it out!
Jodie Cooper 00:41
...but that I still loved my anger. I loved it so much, because it gave me control. And it gave me power. And that was really what I was after. And it wasn't until I realized that and the other thing that I realized in that week was that I wanted my marriage to change, because it was causing me discomfort that my husband was getting upset with me...
Pandora Villasenor 01:11
You are listening to The All Gifts Podcast, where we unwrap some of life's most painful topics to find the hidden gift within. I coach people helping them discover ways to transform their challenges into gifts. I'm your host and author of the All Gifts memoir, Pandora Villasenor. Well, listeners, thank you so much for tuning in once again to another episode of The All Gifts podcast. I'm your host, Pandora Villasenor. And with me today is Jodie Cooper. Jodie, I'm so excited you're here, please tell our guests a little bit about yourself.
Jodie Cooper 01:48
It's so lovely to be here. My name is Jodie Cooper. I live in Australia. I write children's books for Christian families to use in their discipleship at home. And I also have a YouTube channel where I talk about family discipleship, and I'm a mom and a wife and have two small children.
Pandora Villasenor 02:05
And they are ages four and two, I believe, right?
Jodie Cooper 02:10
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.
Pandora Villasenor 02:11
Yeah. And you just recently moved. It sounds like, did you move from one part of Australia to another?
Jodie Cooper 02:17
Yeah, we did. So we were living in a small country town, just north of the city here. And now we've moved to the city. So it's been a huge change. Still adjusting.
Pandora Villasenor 02:27
I bet. How long have you been? Yeah. In the city?
Jodie Cooper 02:31
Oh, what is it must have been nearly two months, I think. Yeah. Okay.
Pandora Villasenor 02:35
And then how is the pandemic doing? So right now we're recording it's the end of January. What's it like for you? Are you guys on lockdown? Are you open? We're so curious. You're, you're like, you know, my first international guest. So I got to understand a little bit more about what your life feels like right now.
Jodie Cooper 02:52
Yeah, look, wait, we're so blessed. And I don't think we've had a case for four months. So we've we've been open for a long time, we did have a short lockdown period where regions were shut down and everything, but it was only quite short.
Pandora Villasenor 03:03
Okay. Okay. Well, it's still very shut down here in Los Angeles. It's opening up just a little bit. We are now open for outdoor dining again. But that hasn't been the case. And I think since November, we've been closed down since November. So we could only get take out. Yeah. So it's been? It's been a very lonely quiet time here. Yeah, yeah. Although we're getting kind of used to it. So today, we're going to talk a little bit about sort of a serious topic, and that is abuse in marriages. So Jodi, you've shared with me that you've come from some abuse in your marriage, why don't you share a little bit about, share with us a little bit about that abuse?
Jodie Cooper 03:46
Yeah, so my marriage started really normally and really nicely. And then slowly, as time went on, there just started to pop up a few little incidents here and there of, of some really unexpected anger. And then as the years went on, it just became really a very frequent player in our marriage until it got to the point where you just never knew when the explosion was going to happen, and a lot of really nasty words spoken but it wasn't always words. Sometimes it would just be just really nasty looks and really punishing kind of behavior in in terms of like, mood and tone and just using those things to to manipulate I suppose in our marriage. Yeah.
Pandora Villasenor 04:29
Some intimidation and using emotions to manipulate. Got it.
Jodie Cooper 04:35
Yeah. And control. I think there was a lot of desire to control just using, yeah, using those kinds of power thing to control. Mm hmm.
Pandora Villasenor 04:46
And when you share this with me, I was quite shocked by what you shared next. Tell us a little bit more about the abuser.
Jodie Cooper 04:53
Yeah, so I was the abuser. I was the one who used my my tone and my words and my mood to control my husband every day. And it went on for a really long time without me really recognizing that it was a problem, because on my end, I was getting everything that I wanted. My husband was this gentle, servant hearted, people-pleaser kind of person. So this worked great, you know, I could use these, these tools to manipulate and to control him. And, and it worked great for us, in that horrible sense of, you know, that's what I was trying to achieve. I wanted him to be bending to my will and doing what I wanted him to do. And that was the vehicle that I used for a long time to make that happen.
Pandora Villasenor 05:37
And I feel embarrassed to admit it but when you share that with me, I, I was surprised. I mean, I think when we start hearing a woman talk about abuse, we just automatically assume that it's the husband. And so when you shared it was you, I have to admit, I was taken aback. And I had to ask myself, why is that? Why do we assume that? That women can't be abusive? You know what I mean?
Jodie Cooper 06:01
Yeah, and abuse is just it. It's like a mishandling of power, isn't it? So? And when you know, so the first time that I wrote about this in an article and said that I was abusing my husband, he was editing it. And he said, "You can't say that. Like, that's not true." And I was like, it is true. Do you know, do you understand the definition of abuse? And he was like . . . and so he went online and did you know you can do like an online "Am I being abused test." So he went and did this, the way that I used to treat him, and he came back and said, "Yeah, you were abusing me." Like I, I there was a total imbalance of power in our relationship. And I felt like, yeah, like, it's something that we're still healing from, he still has situations where he doesn't do what he would want to do or what he would naturally do, because he's still afraid of me. Like it . . . yeah, it's awful. It's really awful.
Pandora Villasenor 06:50
But how did you become aware of it? So it sounds like it was something you were doing that you weren't even consciously aware of? And then you got to a point where you were? So what happened? What changed?
Jodie Cooper 07:00
Um, yeah, so it was going on for a really long time. And I didn't, I couldn't face it. So my husband would take a lot to take a lot for a long time, and then he would just explode. And and he wouldn't do what I did, he wouldn't do what I'd done back to me, but he would just kind of, yeah, he wouldn't abuse me, but he'd get really upset and just kind of vocalize that. And so those times I would really struggle, I'd be like, like, Hey, this is really bad or whatever. But then he would kind of settle down and we'd get back into our normal groove again. So that was kind of, because generally, it didn't interrupt my life too much. And it just that pattern continued. And because it was working so well, for me, like I do, I'd have strong control issues. And so this, yeah, it's just really worked. So it kind of went on. And then I was having a conversation with my sister late one night and talking about some of the things that were happening in our marriage. And I was, I was kind of laughing, I'm really ashamed, decided that I was talking about some of the things that were going on. And I was laughing about it, and just being quite light hearted about it. And the more that I spoke, I just remember her face. She just had this, like, speak, look over her face. And she was like, What are you doing? Like, why? I can't understand that you're saying these things and trading it in such a light hearted way, and it just really hit my heart then. And the next day, we called a counselor. Because, yeah, I don't, I don't know why it took that. But sometimes it just takes somebody outside of you know, he was crying out for help. For a long time, he was really mentally unwell and really struggling in our marriage, but I never put it down to that.
Pandora Villasenor 08:43
I can relate in some ways to the story, because when, when Joe, my husband and I, who had been together for 10 years got married, I he he also had just a very serving heart, you know, really wanted to serve me some I had been a single mom, you know, for my kids, you know, my oldest was already grown up, and my youngest was, you know, 11 when we met and he, he really wanted to take care of me in a very, you know, in a very real sense, like, serve me like, you know, bring me you know, food, you know, and you know, just like in the very most basic needs ways, but ways that I never really been taken care of by anybody else, because I had been so independent and had to take care of myself growing up. Having been also a teen mom, you know, I always just had to work and so here he was this like loving sweet and gentle man. And I realized early on in our dating relationship that, you know, I would have these angry outbursts and I would have these jealous outbursts, too. I was really jealous. And basically, I was, you know, getting, you know, triggered from all these things that had happened in my life that had nothing to do with him. And I didn't know I was like that until I was with him because he was the first like healthy, gentle, sweet man I'd ever been with. So I didn't realize what a mess until, yeah, you know, and so I would like go off, or I would do these things and he would just be so shocked and hurt that it really, you know, affected me, I'm like, wow, I need help because I am. It's me, you know, and I've been used to like all my adult life being the one that was abused and my, my whole life period, adult life, Child Life my whole life. So I wasn't used to being the one that had to face my own, you know, toxic relationship patterns, you know, not knowing how to handle conflict, well, not knowing how to handle my emotions and all those things. And so I can totally relate to what you're talking about. And listeners, just so you know, I've gotten lots of help over the years, and we're doing great, but I'm talking about early on. It was it was tough. So I, I relate to what you're saying. And it is sad, and it is shameful. But it's so good. We're talking about it, because I bet you there's a lot of other people that struggle with this and could use some awareness and some help around, you know, how did we, you know, get to a place where we now have, you know, stability in our marriages and recognize that Yeah, you know, we have to, you know, as women, not just, you know, avoid being abused ourselves, but also avoid getting into abusive patterns where we're the, you know, the abusers.
Jodie Cooper 11:22
Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.
Pandora Villasenor 11:24
So you guys went to counseling? And was that helpful?
Jodie Cooper 11:29
A little bit? Yeah, look, I can't, so it was a great guy. But he really focused on my husband. And I kind of kept saying, I'm the one with the problem here, Oh, my goodness. But he, he was really wanting to build my husband up and to really strengthen him. And because that was one thing that he he struggled with that part of the reason why I walked all over him was because he didn't stand up for himself. So and that was, that was more what the counselor chose to focus on. And at the time, we were still living in the country. So we had to wait until we're in the city to say this guy. And so we didn't, you know, we didn't pay him that much. And I really felt like it wasn't, it wasn't helping me. Very much, I guess. Yeah. But it was, like, great things were happening in, in well, and in his life because of that, but I yeah, I just felt like he wasn't helping me enough.
Pandora Villasenor 12:20
Yeah. And I will say, we went to we went to some family counseling at the time, that was okay. I mean, you know, it was helpful, maybe a little bit, but, you know, what really helped me and maybe you can relate to this, you know, I talk about this all the time, listeners, you know, my worldview, I'm a Christian, I consider myself a Christ follower. And so what really helped me at the time was we had in our church, back then, sort of, like we would help, we'd have like marriage couples, kind of, like helping, you know, people who were ahead of us in our marriage would like get together in their marriage would get together and, and meet with us and talk about, you know, what was going on, like, we kind of had, like, a married couple that we were sort of, like, you know, I don't want to say assigned to, but like, paired up with to, like, help us through our marriage. Just, you know, not as counselors but just like, just to bounce stuff off of and, like, learn together and kind of do some life together. And I remember that couple, you know, one time, you know, one of these times, we got into one of these arguments where I had a fit of rage and and we went over to their house to talk about it. And I fully expected that they were going to let him have it. Like I thought they were going to like, hear my side of the story. You know what I mean? And say, you know, Joe, you should have done this differently, you know, but instead they look at me and they were like, you know, Pandora, you're you're looking at him and you're making him pay for something he didn't do. And I kind of was just like what? So the fact that they were looking at me and really, we called it discipling, they were discipling me, they were you know pointing out my sin and what I was doing that was inappropriate and toxic and it was just shocking. I remember I was initially shocked, really offended but it was just my pride. I just like was like what but then later when I was alone, you know having my time with God processing my emotions, journaling and doing all those things that I normally do to kind of like sort out difficult situations. It became apparent in my time alone with God that Yep, it was me and I had some behaviors that I needed to turn out to be say repent I needed to stop doing those behaviors because they were going to hurt you know, what was a beautiful relationship. So that's what really helped me is kind of having you know, kinda like you shared about your sister just having somebody else that that you trust who's got a good you know, relationship good head on their shoulders, a good relationship with God go, "No, you're you're wrong."
Jodie Cooper 14:59
Yeah. Totally, yeah and we all need those kind of people who have the boldness to speak truth to us, it's a great relationship to have.
Pandora Villasenor 15:07
So what did you do? What were some of the things that you do to kind of get to this place now where you're really on the other side of working through this?
Jodie Cooper 15:14
So I started by I just thought that I really wanted something that would just fix the problem, right? I started chasing all these different things, because really, I had like a rage issue, like it was like, I'd be normal one second, and then something would happen. And I just be like, you know, a wild animal ready to tear him to pieces or whatever, you know, like it just, it felt like it just overtook me. And I had no, I felt like I had no control to stop that from happening, you know. So I was like, I just need something to come and fix me. So I tried to go to different prayer ministry things and say, I have this rage issue, I just want someone to lay hands on me and pray for me. And for it to go. I was and that wasn't working. And I was like I maybe hypnosis, I, I don't know, I just wanted something that would just happen. And I'd be fixed, you know, like that. But I was after. And then similar to you. We were having we had hosted this marriage, these a couple who had traveled from somewhere else and come to our town, and they done a marriage course, on an evening. And we really enjoyed it in the morning. because they'd stayed in our house, we had breakfast with them. And the husband started talking about early in the marriage about how he had explosive rage issues. And I was so captivated. And because he had only known him after that time. And he is the most gentle, loving, servant hearted kind of a man and I just couldn't put these two pictures together what he was talking about. So I, I was captivated. And I was like you have to tell me what, what do I need to do? And I, I just explained everything that was happening in our marriage. And he was a little bit shocked. Because normally, I guess normally it's the man who has the anger issue, or that's that's our perception I suppose. So he they were they needed to get going. So there wasn't much time left to discuss anything. He just said to me. You need to pray and fast like this is a this is a stronghold in your life. And I don't know the answer, you need to pray about it. And initially, I was really annoyed, because I hated fasting, because I got really angry and I feel like I was the worst person when I was fasting them and I wasn't. And it wasn't a quick, it wasn't going to just fix me overnight. And I was really frustrated by that. But I was so desperate at this point. Like we've done the counseling, we've done so many different things. So I tried it, I think it was the next day, I woke up and was like rad I'm gonna spend this week praying and fasting, I had a small baby. So it wasn't like a full on fast. It was just something that I could manage that I got hungry enough that it affected my life. And over a week or so I read every passage in the Bible on anger. And then I just put them together in like a kind of a mantra, I guess, or I don't know if that's the right. I put them all together and inserted my name in where it needed to be inserted. And throughout the course of the day, I would just read it like more than more than once an hour, I would just read it as regularly as I could throughout my day. And over that week, I changed I realized some things that I'd never realized before I realized that God called my anger bad, right? He said that your anger is going to profit you nothing in life. But that I still loved my anger. I loved it so much because it gave me control. And it gave me power. And that was really what I was after. And it wasn't until I realized that. And the other thing that I realized in that week was that I wanted our marriage to change. Because it was causing me discomfort that my husband was getting upset with me about my anger, I didn't want our marriage to change because my anger was offending a holy God. Or really, because of the way that was affecting my husband, I was only concerned about change that it would become more comfortable for me. So all of those, all of that internal kind of hidden under the surface stuff was brought out into the light. And it was ugly. It was it was really ugly. And it was the first time that I really saw a lot of my scene and deceptive ways in my life like clearly and I really experienced real repentance maybe for like the first time in my Christian life, I hate to say but it was just like the light was shining into all the dark corners of my heart. And it was a real man. And and I knew that I needed Jesus more than I'd ever known that before.
Pandora Villasenor 19:32
And the Bible says that repentance brings refresh, refreshing. I think it says or refreshment. Is that how you felt when you reach that point of full repentance? Did you feel that refreshing?
Jodie Cooper 19:45
Yeah, absolutely. So I just felt like I could actually look at reality from then on because before that, I just couldn't even face what was really happening in my marriage. I couldn't look at it. I couldn't talk about it. Because it was Just too much, but being able to bring it to God in, in all of its reality and all of it, man, I didn't know there was just this incredible freedom of being able to stay right that that is actually our reality. I can face it now. And we can we can move forward, I suppose. Yeah.
Pandora Villasenor 20:18
It's such a paradox, right? It's this, this awareness that, you know, wow, I'm doing this to have, I'm sending in this way so that I can take control. But, but when we repent, and we spend that time alone with God, we realize, actually, it's our fault, right? It's, it's, it's our sin, it's our behavior that's causing whatever it is, and, and so there's this paradox and realizing that it's actually in our hands because we can choose. So this control we were grabbing for, we actually have control in an in a different way, we have this control of controlling our own behavior, of choosing god of choosing God's way of choosing to do the right thing and choosing to apologize and choosing to forgive whatever those different things are. It's amazing the paradox of when we're trying to grab things in the way that we think we want them. And we're trying to control things in the way we think are going to give us what we ultimately desire. It's this, isn't it just so paradoxical, that it's actually the opposite. When we surrender, we actually gained control, but in a different way.
Jodie Cooper 21:30
Yeah, totally. Yeah. And so since then, I guess I, I now under, so I still get angry a lot of the time. So another thing that I discovered kind of after that period was that I have a condition called misophonia, which is like a sensitivity to sound. So certain sounds, especially they happen a lot in my marriage, they would trigger me, and I would have like a stress response. And that came out of me as anger, I guess so. And God has really graciously given me loving ways to respond to, to my triggers now, which I never thought was possible. And, you know, as much as I really wanted him to heal me, of that, he hasn't, and I think, actually think that's a great thing, because I'm just so desperately dependent on him and his help every day to, to help me to overcome these things, you know, and if he just took all those things away from my life, I, I would think that I wouldn't even need him, you know, so there's a great gift in, in a challenge, I guess, like that.
Pandora Villasenor 22:33
Such a gift, it's such a gift to realize our limitations. And again, another paradox, you know, within our limitations, our weaknesses, there is strength in God. And that's, that's one of the beauty, the beauties of, of walking this, this life with Jesus walking this life with God. So amazing. So I want to go back, I want to circle back to what you did your week of, you know, fasting and meditating on the scriptures. I have to say, I do not love fasting. It is. It's one of those spiritual practices that I and, you know, I can count on one hand, how many times I've done it in this, you know, 16 years time of, you know, considering myself to be a Christian. And yet, I can look back at the times that I've done it, and I've done them out of complete desperation, probably very similar to how you're feeling like I will do anything to make this problem get resolved, or, you know, make this issue go away. And I can look back and every time it was so powerful, it was so powerful. Yet I don't do it all the time. Did you after having that experience? Do you do it more? Do you work this in as a as a regular discipline? Or is it something that you know, you you like me?
Jodie Cooper 23:52
No, I still . . . Yeah, it's still something that is probably more saved for for desperate times, but you know, I'd like you, I do look back on it and think, man, why don't I do that more, but I think the practice that I've really taken out of that, that I use a lot like daily now is just meditation. So meditation on God's word, I mean, so I used to think that like knowledge, we just need to like read something until we know it, and then move on. But meditation is really different because it involves, like slowing down. And I don't know, I don't really understand how it happens. But reading something slowly meditatively by that, it kind of just like fills you and you see it from every angle and you. You see it in a new way. And it it just I don't know yet. It's a great way of letting God's word come and dwell richly in you, I guess. And that's a practice that I don't live without now because I know that my heart and my mind, get set on my way, all the time. And then I need God's truth to just come in and fill me very regularly so that I, I can have his way of thinking and not mine again, like, meditation is really my, my tool for that now.
Pandora Villasenor 25:12
I do that daily as well. And I just read a, I'm reading this book right now, I think the woman's name is Marjorie Thompson, and probably getting that hope I'm getting that right. I think it's called Soul Feast, but it's about just different spiritual practices. I was just reading this morning, and she was talking about the difference between reading scripture for information and knowledge, versus reading scripture for relationship and transformation. And so it's the difference between information and formation, you know, spiritual formation. So it was it was a cool way to kind of call out exactly what you were just sharing and, and I agree, you know, I used to approach Bible study every day is kind of like, Okay, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna, you know, check this off. I'm gonna read one chapter. Yeah. And, you know, and just accumulate that information. And then, over the course of my early years, as a Christian, I would, you know, I'm gonna read the whole Bible in a year. So you know, I had a whole plan, and I would do that every day. And
Jodie Cooper 26:09
yeah, I know,
Pandora Villasenor 26:11
I don't, I don't think that was a waste of time. I know that that puts something in my soul, and in my mind, and in my heart that, but it was like a preliminary sort of laying the groundwork. And then, over the years, taking that meditative approach to Scripture, really sitting in relationship with God and asking, you know, what do you want to tell me today and coming to that time with that expectation that I'm going to be given, you know, something, something from him something that he wants to give me, you know, something, he wants me to know, something, he wants to empower me with? Something he wants me to tell somebody else? And then he wants me to do? It just it brings it all to life in a way that just reading for information just doesn't.
Jodie Cooper 26:54
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Pandora Villasenor 26:55
Yeah. Okay. So tell me a little bit. I'm just kind of, I want to hear about your ministry, I want to hear about the children's books. But before that, I really want to hear about your children. And just sort of like, what that was like, You started this journey of understanding what was happening in your marriage. It sounds like while your oldest was a baby, is that right?
Jodie Cooper 27:16
Yeah. So it's quite recent, I have to say, but yeah,
Pandora Villasenor 27:20
yeah. So tell us a little bit, you also shared with me that one of the other challenges that you've been able to overcome and just really find the gifts in is something that's going on with your older son. So tell us about that.
Jodie Cooper 27:34
Yeah, so my son, he started exhibiting some differences when he was quite young. And I, it took us a long time to kind of understand that. So I noticed that he was different to other kids early and all kids are different, like totally, but he just was a different kind of different, I suppose there was a lot of a lot of crying, which kind of seemed unexplained to me, like it didn't seem to be triggered by something that other kids would cry about. And it was, especially if we went to somebody else's house or went out of the house or something like that. And he just wasn't developing wasn't reaching the same milestone, as other kids. And initially, I really blamed myself and thought that there was something that I was doing wrong to make this happen, or to delay him or whatever. And then we started, a few people kind of mentioned autism, and we started going down the road of making a diagnosis. And, and then we did eventually get the diagnosis that he was on the spectrum. Yeah, so that has been, it's been a really challenging process, in a lot of ways, been very helpful to get the answers for why we were having these challenges.
Pandora Villasenor 28:48
So this was a challenging process, obviously. But it was relieving for you to get the diagnosis so that you can understand what was happening. Tell us a little bit more about why you now can look back and see some gifts in in like discovering this about your son.
Jodie Cooper 29:07
Yeah, so it really helps me to understand I, I think I had always thought this but I always just thought I am going to have like the most social lovely, pleasant mannered child who is just gonna, you know, go up to people and say hello and want to talk to them and want to hear their story and all that kind of thing. That was really my expectation. My reality was that I had this child who, if, if an older lady tried to talk to him in the shop, he would like hold his hand in their face and scream at them. That was my reality. Right? It was so far from what I had wanted and expected and hoped for my child. And this process of having to come to terms with my reality really exposed some things in my heart that I had hoped that I had established for my child. That were really silly things and a lot of them were born out of my own hurts and wounds. I guess from when I was younger, and ways that I struggled socially, I, I really wanted to, like push back in the other direction and be like, right, my kids aren't going to have the, you know, the social fears or whatever that I have, I want to push back in the other direction and make sure that they go a different way. And so this process of diagnosis and having to come to terms with reality has helped me to see that actually my hopes for my children need to be in God and in what he has planned for their lives, whatever that can be. And it's so different to you know, earthly hopes and dreams for our children, I think, and, and I got so much comfort and peace, knowing that if my son accepts Jesus and accept what he did for him, when he when he died on the cross and came back to life again, that he will experience a new life in heaven with Jesus that is going to be disability free. And that is, it's just, it's such a different hope to what, you know, my therapy goals, or whatever else I might want to set my heart on. That is ultimately what I want to fix my heart on for as the greatest hope and the greatest dream that I have for my son. He's got to spend eternity healed with with Jesus with his healer and his Savior.
Pandora Villasenor 31:21
I think it's amazing that you got to realize that when your son so young, because I think there are many of us, who don't realize the expectations we have for our children until they get to an age where they are choosing a different route for themselves. And suddenly we're like, wait, this isn't, I didn't even know I had expectations. But now I do. And you're not meeting them? Right? I mean, I think you know, a lot of moms go through that, when their kids get older and start to form their own identities. And so the fact that you get to do that, while he's so young, but that's real, that really is a gift, you know,
Jodie Cooper 32:00
It is. Yeah, it's just been, it's been exactly what I need. And and I feel like it has really, I mean, so it is a, like a daily kind of resetting of focus again, but I am so thankful that I could have that for my son. And now my daughter coming after him that I, I can be aware of that, at least that I have this mixed motive in my heart of earthly hope, versus, you know, heavenly hope, I guess.
Pandora Villasenor 32:23
You know, that's the theme, because you shared that about even the way you were approaching wanting to get help for your marriage is just this idea that motivation of the heart is so important, what you know, what our heart is, wanting our intentions in something we can actually just, you know, we can, by by being aware of the intentions of our hearts, even we can further put ourselves in a position where we're, we're, we're acting within what we believe within our value system within our belief system, versus, you know, not being aware of what's going on in that unconscious motivation of the heart. And then, you know, there's, there's behaviors that we're doing that we're not even aware of, in where it's coming from. So it sounds like you're really in touch with like, what's going on in your heart? Like what's going on internally, motivating your decisions and your behaviors? It sounds like. How do you get so in touch with that part of yourself?
Jodie Cooper 33:21
That's a great question. I think that I have learned, you know, through seeing myself more clearly through all of, especially through my marriage issues. Having my sin exposed, I, I realized how deceitful the human heart is. And I know that I need this regular rechecking of my motivations. And so I use three things to check that, now I suppose. So. And this is like a diagnostic that I run very regularly, especially when I find myself in some kind of sin or problem, I kind of run these three things over my heart. So what is my faith in to fix the problem? So what do I ultimately see as the problem in the world and in myself? And what is my hope in? Is it in God? Or is it in earthly things? And what what am I loving, I think that's the biggest one because love even though we don't notice that it's this internal thing that's going on that drives so much of what we do. And God commands us to love him with all of our heart and soul and mind and strength and everything, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. But I spend so much of my day, loving the only person that's left off that list first, which is me and doing things that are motivated for for my gain and my glory rather than God. So, I guess through my marriage challenges and everything else, I've come to realize that I need regular redirection in those three areas that my heart is gonna try to put it put my faith in earthly things. Put my hope in earthly things and my love in earthly things that God is calling me to putting those things in the only one that's going to satisfy them. And it's not a one thing. It's not a one time thing. It's not something that I can just do once. No, I can't even just do it once in my day and move on. It is something that I have to keep coming back to regularly to renew my heart, and the gospel is always the solution. So when I realized that my faith, hope and love are in something else, I feed my heart with the gospel again, and remind it that actually Jesus is the one who saved and who fixes the problems that are in this earth. And that my hope is in him and in the future that is, is coming for those who believe. And my love is, it belongs to him because of what he has done to rescue me from such a wretched position that I was in.
Pandora Villasenor 35:49
Well, you know, I really wish I could impress upon people who have a different worldview. It's not that, you know, I don't love them, I do, and God does. God loves them. And I wish I could impress upon them that, you know, this, this, you know, sense of everybody being obsessed with this idea of self care how . . . another paradox with God is when we, when we do put our faith, hope and love in him, our needs are taken care of. It's it's not what people think it's not even what we've been taught a lot in the church, there's this idea of like, it's a, it's about performing. And it's about doing stuff and feeding the poor and, you know, volunteering and charity and showing up at church and checking the box with reading scriptures and praying a certain number of minutes a day or, but really, it's, it's, again, it's that heart thing. It's that heart motivation, you can do all of those activities, and your heart can be far from God. You know, even God even says that in the Bible, like, you know, you put your hearts were far from me. And so it's interesting how people might view Christianity from the outside and this, you know, list of have-tos or don't-dos. But really, when you have a real relationship with the true God and the True JESUS, and you understand what Jesus has done for you, you actually have more freedom, self care, you don't even need to be concerned with self care, because when you put God first, God says what? I will give you rest. Jesus says, I will give you I will, all you who are weary and burdened, come to me for I will give you rest for your souls. So we don't have to, you know, the, anyway, I'm mumbling, but I'm saying like, you know, I just wish that people understood that the ultimate self care is God, the ultimate self care is loving God, and because all of our needs will be met as well. So I really enjoyed what you shared.
Jodie Cooper 37:48
Amazing. Yeah. It's so true. It's discovering that that has, that's been a huge part of my journey as well, because I was what you were talking about, I was the busy Christian who didn't understand that the business is meant to come out of a love for God that flows then into into works and acts of love and things. But I was trying to do it the other way around. I was trying to be busy and do stuff and hope that would satisfy my soul. But it is never going to
Pandora Villasenor 38:16
Yeah, doing stuff for God rather than stuff with God. Very big difference. It's a world of difference, actually. So tell us a little bit about your organization. I want to know more about what you're doing in terms of your YouTube channel for families and your books. Tell us about that.
Jodie Cooper 38:35
Yeah, so I, my son used to listen to like Audio Stories. And when he rested, and one day I said, We have looked for some Christian books on things. When I started discovering this stuff about discipleship and everything. I was like, man, I don't want my kids to get to study like I did, and not know this stuff, not understand how to preach the gospel to their heart and how it's actually good news for all of life. Because before that, I had thought that the gospel was something that you just kind of accepted in your head, and then you put it on the shelf, because you're done with it. You use it for evangelism, because it's just to get people in the door to heaven. That's what I thought, right? But then I discovered that the gospel is actually good news for all of life. And it is meant to be the fuel for the Christian, for all the good things by doing just like what we were saying before that it Yeah, it's meant to be something that we are feeding our soul with daily to, to reset our focus and everything. So I wanted my kids to understand that. So I wrote these stories, and I recorded them as Audio Stories, and my son would listen to them. And then one day, I was lying in the bedroom with him while he was resting and I was listening to myself reading the story, and I was like, oh, man, I really needed to hear that right then like, Thank you future, past self. And, and then I kind of started thinking about how maybe I need to share these resources. So that was kind of where it started, I suppose. And I Yeah, so I've written six children's books about what sorry, let me remember. They're about God's glory, which is my most recent one, which is professionally illustrated. And I really love it. It's like God's glory, loving God loving others having paste. What about beauty for teenage girls, and then . . . Oh I forget one. Oh some other book. My series of books, they are called Good News in the Gum Trees. And so they're their books that you read together with your kids. And and there is a set of questions for you to look at to reflect on how this truth affects your heart and your life today. And you're so it's about trying to connect the gospel to your daily life today. So so with loving God, it looks at well, what are the things that we are loving now? What are the things that the world sells us to try to love? And why is God so much better than those things. And so going through that process with your kids, going through the steps of preaching the gospel to your heart, with, with your kids through this kind of fun, story, and everything else, and then yeah, so using those resources to bring it home to your life, that's kind of what my books are about. And then my YouTube channel kind of was birthed out of that. So I've got a YouTube channel of some of the songs that go with the books. But then I've also got one called the Gospel Led Family, which I've started recently, which is me kind of sharing a bit of my testimony of really understanding the gospel, and how it's good news for all of life. But then the thing that I'm really excited about on my channel is that I'm currently going through the book of Romans, and looking at what it has to say about family discipleship, because I grew up not really being discipled. And so heading into the uncharted waters of discipling my family has been a real paradigm shift me, I suppose. And I've read lots of books about family discipleship, but I didn't feel like any of them really dove into what do the Scriptures say in a really kind of sequential way. And if there was a book that you decided to read about the gospel, I think Romans would probably be a good want to start with. So I am loving it, the treasures in that book. Amazing. And I'm so excited to share them as well.
Pandora Villasenor 42:15
What I love in some of the things that I read, it might have been your website, or it might have been your interview with Focus on the Family. But you shared about some of those discipleship questions that go along with the books, how it really gives parents an opportunity to share, you know, in real life, things that they really struggle with. And yeah, I think I'm with you, it is so powerful to be real with our kids appropriately, right. Like, to their age, yeah. But being able to give them real examples of struggle, of weakness, of overcoming struggles and weakness, is what our kids need to hear. They don't need to see us as these super uber Christians that got all together, you know, we I think there was a mindset with some parents, that, you know, I have to hold it together. And I've got to show them that I've got it all together and be this role model. Like that's what being a role model is, it's showing our children like, "Oh, look at," you know, "she can handle anything," or I don't know what the thought process is, but I just naturally gravitated towards being real with my kids and, and just sharing from my heart and things that I was going through and the way God was meeting me in those things. And the way he was overcoming and sharing that good news with my kids. And I think, I think it's the best, you know, so I think that's what you were alluding to, and the resources I was looking through prior to this conversation. And I just think that's so important, just being real, appropriately, but but to the point that they understand that, you know, life is hard, but God will meet us in the everyday hard difficulties as well as the big hard. You know, the little hards that come, you know, every day, the minutiae
Jodie Cooper 43:55
Yeah, yeah,
Pandora Villasenor 43:56
then also the big things, right. So I really love that about your resources.
Jodie Cooper 44:01
Yeah. And I agree with you that parents really need to lead the charge when it comes to repentance, because I think they're like, I a part of the reason I think, you know, there are lots of simple reasons why I didn't deal with my anger for so long. But a part of the reason was that I saw a lot of Christians around me who I had known for a long time with similar issues that had similar issues that they'd had for a long time. And so part of my mindset was that, well, God can't help with these kind of huge character flaws, or he doesn't want to, that's not what he's on about, you know. So having a Yeah, having that in my life. If I had have had Christian parents, or, you know, other Christian adults around me who were like, I have a huge daily struggle with sin, like, my sin is going to come in. It's always crouching at the door. It's going to try to trick me and try to deceive me today again, and I need I need to be aware of that. I'm going to have to repent today. I'm going to have to reset my heart with the truth. Just having that reality as part of the Christian walk would have really helped me because I think then I would have been like, Oh, that's what's going on. And that's what I need to do, because I had no idea what I needed to do to overcome it. And I really didn't understand about, you know, repentance or walking in the Spirit and all that kind of thing. So, yeah, having that foundation for kids as they go out into the world and do everything that they're going to do, I think is an amazing foundation for the Christian life.
Pandora Villasenor 45:31
Yeah, I have an episode, I think it's episode nine. I don't always remember the numbers of my episodes, but where my son Evan comes in, and is the guest on that episode. And we talk about anger in that episode, and and what helped him and what helped me as I was raising him with both of us having anger issues. And so, you know, one of the things that he talks about is, you know, just me being like, able to apologize, just being, you know, real. And when I messed up and said to him, you know, hey, you know, said to my little nine year old son, like, you know, messed up today, I should not have yelled at you, that was not your fault. And that was not okay. And I'm sorry. And just like, how powerful that was for him, you know? And so yeah, I just, I think it's great. I love what you're doing. So tell our listeners, how can they find you and find all these wonderful resources you have for families.
Jodie Cooper 46:26
And so one way is to find my FaceBook page or my Instagram, I'm not so big on Instagram, but my Facebook page. So that's Good News in the Gum Trees is the name and then if you're interested in the YouTube channel, so the YouTube channel is just really for parents. Whereas the other resources are kind of for families. My YouTube channel is the Gospel Led Family.
Pandora Villasenor 46:48
I have to ask, okay, because I'm American, so embarrassed. But tell us about the title Good News in the Gum Trees. What does that mean? And it must mean something Australian because I'm not familiar with gum trees. Or maybe I'm just ignorant of all things and it has nothing to do with being American.
Jodie Cooper 47:09
The reason I guess is that in my my books, I've written about a family of pink and gray galahs, which are these really cute little birds that are like this vibrant pink with light gray, and we had a pet when we were growing up, I really loved them. And so they live in gum trees, I guess. And then it just kind of, you know, I didn't really think about that title for more than a second that was kind of like, well, that has a nice ring to it and went with it. Okay, but didn't really think that I was going to publish these books further or anything, but it was just a really split decision. Yeah, but gum trees are beautiful. Yeah, Australian trees, I guess.
Pandora Villasenor 47:40
Okay, so they are from Australia. Okay. And so that's, that was what I was wondering. I was like, okay, is this just something I don't know about? Or is this something that is very particular to your part of the world. So I am so grateful for you, thank you for being here today. And for just sharing your life. So vulnerably. With the listeners, it's not easy to admit that we have anger management issues, but so powerful, because you know what, that's why we do this podcast, we put these things in the light. And we talk about how we can overcome them. So I'm hoping that the listeners will listen and go, you know what i can i can change to I can get help I can overcome this, you know, this part of my life that's holding me back. So thank you so much for being here. Jodie, if there's anything else you want to share with the audience, feel free to leave any last, you know, a couple thoughts or anything before we close out.
Jodie Cooper 48:31
Look, thank you so much for having me. It's been such a pleasure to speak with you and to share a bit about my journey. I just wanted to finish with reading from Hebrews chapter 12. verses one to two. "Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and sin that so easily entangles us and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." Thank you for having me.
Pandora Villasenor 49:14
And thank you for being here. And that scripture totally encapsulates what we mean when we say the gospel. Well, thank you so much for sharing that listeners if you're not aware, that verse that God just read, that is the gospel, the good news that Jesus Christ, came to earth died for our sins and rose again and is now at the right hand of God interceding on our behalf. Thank you so much for being here. Jodie, we're grateful for you and we pray that you and your family will be very blessed and other families will be blessed by your writing. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the All Gifts podcast. I'm your host Pandora Villasenor. I have a passion for coaching people to overcome the challenges in their lives by helping them to discover ways to train form those challenges into gifts, gifts of accomplishment, perseverance, strength and resilience. But most of all, peace and self love. Go to allgiftsbook.com to join us for exciting updates on the launch of All Gifts the book, to sign up for our newsletter and other freebies. That's allgiftsbook.com